BtVS issue 11spoilery specs

[moscow_watcher]

I finally read issue 11. Don't have ideas for a review, but here are some spoilery speculations.

1. Twilight's identity.

He's somebody we know. Story-wise, there is no need to hide a face and to change a voice (I was told that "funny" font he uses means he distorts his voice) unless you're afraid to be recognized.

Who is he? So far the prime suspects are Caleb and Riley.

Arguments for Caleb:

-- he's been shown twice in the comics (in this issue and in Buffy's dreamspace in issue 3)
-- he knows "Buffy's move" when she tries to use the technique she used to kill Caleb
-- Caleb is a preacher and Buffy/Twilight fight is heavy with church props and there is even a direct reference (Buffy: "Church me")

Arguments against Caleb:

-- I find it hard to imagine him aknowledging that "one girl was OK"

-- Twilight's cool boots are his trademark feature and Caleb wore shoes in season 7



Arguments for Riley

-- Although he isn't mentioned by name, there is a lot of indirect Riley presence in this issue. Twilight's arrival is forestalled with Buffy recalling her dream in Restless (Buffy to Satsu: "You look like me in a dream I had one time")




RILEY: (offscreen) Thought you were looking for your friends. Okay, killer... if that's the way you want it. I guess you're on your own. (Walks off.)

-- later Buffy mentions Riley among "people who died" - - "they start letting vamps suck on 'em and they leave"

-- Joss has promised Riley's return

Arguments against Riley

-- character-wise, it doesn't make sense (then again does Buffy robbing banks make sense?)

2. Mole identity.

I can't see anybody but Renee as a mole.

Story-wise, it's very Jossian. Renee as a traitor will provide Xander with a heartbreak big enough to satisfy Joss.

Character-wise, it doesn't add up: she sounds very sweet and sincerely in love with Xander. But I can't help remembering Knox on Joss-penned AtS episode A Hole in the World. He also was sweet and sounded sincere in his love for Fred. Joss even included him in a powershot of the characters going with the mission of saving Fred. And several scenes later a slip of tongue betrayed him as a man who killed her. Typical Joss.

So - any ideas?

Comments

[shapinglight]

:Blinks:

Joss said Riley would come back? When was this?

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I can't remember the source, sorry. I'll try find out. I'll reply later.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I asked at SlayAlive and people gave me the link:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9674

It's not just Buffy's regular supporting cast that Whedon has plans for in "Buffy." He also hopes to check in with loads of other characters like Buffy's ex-boyfriend, government monster slayer, Riley Finn. "I have plans for everybody," Whedon said. "I cannot tell you if these plans will come to fruition because somebody might have a better idea.

So, it's not an official confirmation, but, at least, there were hints at Riley's return.

[shapinglight]

Thanks for that, Moscow. Have to admit, I took to skimming Joss's interviews re: the comic after it came out that Spike and Angel were unlikely to be used.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Giles? He flies, therefore there's some magic involved, right?

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Hardly. In issue 3 he tries to find out something about Twilight symbol in his conversation with a demon. It can't be an act - he has nobody to act for.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess that shows how out of touch I am on the plot stuff! *g* No idea, then, unless it does turn out to be Riley.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I'm still open-minded on who the mole will be... but after seeing Renee wearing black leather trousers in this episode, she's shot right to the top of the list. :-)

Plus, remember how pre-planned her approach is; she's been studying comic books, drywalling, etc, to make herself into the sort of person Xander would be attracted to.

Cute or sinister? You decide.
(Of course, it could be both cute and sinister. In the Buffyverse, that's practically normal...)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'm still open-minded on who the mole will be... but after seeing Renee wearing black leather trousers in this episode, she's shot right to the top of the list. :-)

Oh, the leather pants of evilness!!! :)
Actually, I have other reasons to think it's her. With season 9 announced semi-officially, Core Four gets an "opening credits immunization". Among new characters there are only two prominent enough to make sense story-wise: Satsu and Renee. Both are love interests of Core Four members so their unmasking will create a lot of angst for a major character.

Satsu is a lesbian, and after fandom outcry at Tara's death I doubt Joss will ever dare to introduce another gay controversy. This leaves Renee.

Plus, remember how pre-planned her approach is; she's been studying comic books, drywalling, etc, to make herself into the sort of person Xander would be attracted to.

Theoretically, one can object that if making Xander fall in love with her was part of Renee spy mission she wouldn't make it obvious that she's trying to be a person Xander would be attracted to.

I'd rather suggest that she has been sent with a strictly spying mission but fell in love and now she thinks she has to save Xander from Buffy's evil clutches. From her POW he's the only normal person in the castle.

Do you remember Joss' declaration "There is no truth. There is just what you believe" in issue 5? Renee may be a distorted mirror of a Decoy!Buffy who unleashed thw war in the underworld. Or a clone of Knox who thought that by making Fred's body the vessel for Illyria he granted her the ultimate honor.

[elisi]

I'd rather suggest that she has been sent with a strictly spying mission but fell in love and now she thinks she has to save Xander from Buffy's evil clutches. From her POW he's the only normal person in the castle.
You know that makes a lot of sense. And then she could get Xander on her side, leading to the scene where Buffy cries because she's been betrayed.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Hee! I like your idea!

But, seriously, I can't figure out if we're supposed to sympathize with this Buffy. She robs banks. She involves young girls into criminal activities. She's emotionally disconnected with everybody. Xander is her last emotional stronghold.

I imagine a dialogue:

Xander to Renee: How could you spy on Buffy?
Renee: No, Xander - how could *you* defend her? She's a criminal! She turns young girls into robbers! You're a decent man, Xander, and I believe in you. Time to make a choice. Either you're with a criminal who corrupts innocent souls or you're with people who try to stop her.

Ah, the angst... :)

[elisi]

Ah, the angst... :)
Heh. Well it would be angsty if I actually cared about any of them. It's more like a really good episode of CSI or something.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

But, seriously, I can't figure out if we're supposed to sympathize with this Buffy.

I think it depends. If you had sympathized with Angel in AtS S2, then there's no problem in sympathizing with Buffy, especially since each new issue reveals something. We know Buffy hates stealing, thinks she's setting a bad example for her slayers, but she had to do it.

I think I feel more sympathy toward Buffy here than Angel in S2, Angel's crimes are bigger in my eyes. Buffy's, while wrong, are less creepy.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Scott Allie on his Q&A was asked what the last names of the new slayers were, and he said that he didn't. Except that Renee's last name might have been floated around.

There's only one other last name that's shown up in the comics, and that's Lt. Molter. So Allie's remarks make it sound *very* likely that the man on the inside is Renee.

I'm hoping that it's an unwitting role, wherein her mother/sister/female relative extracts information from her in the course of ordinary conversation. Cause I like Renee. (And this is my discomfort with the new medium. It's hard enough to feel vested in the new comic-only characters. If it turns out that one who has been portrayed sympathetically was really just totally lying, it makes it harder to feel drawn in by the sympathetic drawings of other characters. Cause, you know, the drawings count for zero. (Renee hasn't a suspicious look in her repertoire that I've seen).

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Scott Allie on his Q&A was asked what the last names of the new slayers were, and he said that he didn't. Except that Renee's last name might have been floated around.

Yes, it's quite intriguing per se, and with current development it becomes even more suspicious.

I'm hoping that it's an unwitting role, wherein her mother/sister/female relative extracts information from her in the course of ordinary conversation.

Knowing Joss I doubt it. The more angst the better - that's his motto. And don't forget candid photos of Buffy and her squad at Gigi's.

If it turns out that one who has been portrayed sympathetically was really just totally lying, it makes it harder to feel drawn in by the sympathetic drawings of other characters. Cause, you know, the drawings count for zero. (Renee hasn't a suspicious look in her repertoire that I've seen).

I won't be surprised if Renee will be portrayed as a person who sincerely believes she's right. From her POW, she's helping the humanity to get rid of evil slayers and Xander is part of the humanity.

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

I also have the feeling that it *might* be Riley. However, I don't think this add up really. How should that work.

It seems to be a male person, though.

Just for the record:
Could be OZ as well...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

However, I don't think this add up really. How should that work.

In Buffy's dream he looks very menacing... Could it be a foreshadowing? It's not hard to invent a transformation that has occurred to him in the demon-infested jungles.

Could be OZ as well...

:)))))
Great idea! He wolfed out and became a good meter taller!

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

Wow - the dream sentence was a reference to RESTLESS.
I am a hardcore Buffy-fan, but it did not came to my mind.
But I guess you're right!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Then I think I may be qualified as a hardcore fan too! :)

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

I agree Caleb seems the most likely candidate, but I'd hate for it be him. He was over-the-top and boring, and he's dead. Maybe it's the First merging with someone else?
And I don't think it's Riley.

Also this issue made me doubt the Twilight's original claim that its goal is to destroy all magic. Now it seems to be reverting the change brought by Buffy. By trying to break the chain, and now, as we can see, by demoralizing Buffy instead of killing her. Strange, but I can see an ambigous guy in this role, the guy who thinks he's a good guy and is doing the right thing.

Giles seems more likely in this role. Also maybe it would explain how he could find a spell so fast in that Twilight manual, to destroy Roden. Maybe he already knew the spell? Also we saw Giles already bitching about there being too many Slayers, and the shifting of balance. I'll go with Giles for a time being, and his betrayal would be the closest and unexpected, even after his previous betrayals. Because previous betrayals he either regretted and amended for, or did them for Buffy's own good, as he saw it.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I agree Caleb seems the most likely candidate, but I'd hate for it be him. He was over-the-top and boring, and he's dead. Maybe it's the First merging with someone else?

With Joss :)))

But, seriously, I remember reading somebody's report that writers were very excited about Caleb and work with Nathan Fillion when Joss told them. They started to invent Caleb's trademark gestures and expressions, but Joss told them that, unfortunately, they don't have time for it. Maybe he's catching up.

So far, Twilight's scratchy neck made me laugh at least once.

And I don't think it's Riley.

I also doubt it. Although Buffy's dream has a very menacing Riley in it, it may be a coincidence.

Also this issue made me doubt the Twilight's original claim that its goal is to destroy all magic. Now it seems to be reverting the change brought by Buffy.

Looking at the bigger picture, I think that season 9 will feature the one and only Slayer again. No evidence, no rational explanation, just a feeling.

Giles seems more likely in this role.

In issue 3 Giles is trying to find out about Twilight symbol when he speaks with a demon. I doubt it was an act.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

In issue 3 Giles is trying to find out about Twilight symbol when he speaks with a demon. I doubt it was an act.
He could be acting for those demons' sake. And we saw Twilight employing demons as well. Hi might be checking how much those demons know. But I'm reaching here, it's just a speculation. Anything is possible.

[pen-romantic.livejournal.com]

Ok I do think it is Caleb because the scene in this last issue was pretty much ointless other that remember his existance

I however think Riley will be above (rank wise) being all govermenty like... plus it is so like Joss... big bad going straight the next season (Spike season 2 and 4 and tehn in 5, 6 ,7 ) , and good guy becoming big bad the next one (Angel season 1 and season 2)

I for one don't want to see Xander heart broken again (although we all know it is inevitable) but maybe there will be someone heart broken enough to have a revenge demon summoned and ANYA is back..... yes I am still hoping for her to show

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

maybe there will be someone heart broken enough to have a revenge demon summoned and ANYA is back..... yes I am still hoping for her to show

I like the idea! Without demons - Anya and Spike - in the regular cast the show has lost part of its charm. Since Spike is busy in Los-Angeles, Anya could represent the demon population for the two of them! :)

[pen-romantic.livejournal.com]

Yes I know .. and I do not want a Clem cameo he was absurd and nota good charchter like Lorne was... we need something evil looking, ironically in teh Angel comics no one is human well except Angel , youhave 2 vampires , a werewolf girl, a fish, a semigod
a superhuamn teen, and in Buffy team, we have onluy humans.. well except Dawn... but yes we need someone evil looking but good hearted....