moscow_watcher: (fate)
[personal profile] moscow_watcher


Happy ending in Angelverse? No, not possible.

It may be an opinion of a thoroughly "jossed" fan, but - yes, I think happy ending and Angel are unmixy. So I expect some nasty catch in the last issue.

In a nutshell: Angel realises that "they", whoever they are - W&H, Senior Partners of scriptwriters excelling in creative torture - can't allow him to die. If he dies they'll "pull a better him out of a timeline" - i.e. make a "physical reboot" as Angel aptly calls it in his voiceover. As soon as Angel realises it, he provokes Gunn to kill him to force "them" to bring everything back to the moment of NFA battle. Back in the alley, they all keep their memories of Hell-A experience intact, so it's rather a "take two" than an actual reboot. "Take one" ended tragically, characters start over with the memories of all the mistakes made in take one. The same night, the same place, but now Angel knows that he has to be quick to save Gunn from being sired and dragon knows from the very beginning who are his friends and who are enemies. This time they don't make mistakes from the previous take - and win.

Of course, current twist raises again the question what the hell "they" - whoever they are - want to do with Angel/want Angel to do. But this question dangles after AtS since 1999, so we may either shrug it off or celebrate its tenth anniversary. The overall premise of Angel being needed up there for the fulfillment of some vague prophecy gradually turned into a improbable plot necessity nobody dares to tackle.

Looks like the overall AtF arc is over (well, mostly). Lynch, with Joss' blessing, successfully turned inside out Angel's arc in season 4 when Angel's journey became an antithesis to the idea of God. God "so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" (John 3:16) while Angel so loved his begotten son that he gave the world. He reloaded the universe and created a world with happy Connor - a world where he and his friends work for an evil firm - I think it qualifies as "giving the world".

In After the Fall Lynch finds a way to reconcile love for the world and love for your family. Apparently, one has to sacrifice himself to make it happen - but that's what Angel usually does. The idea works beautifully on narrative and on metaphorical level and serves a great illustration of the idea that "love for your world starts with love for your family" (this Francis Bacon quote is well-known in Russian but I couldn't find it in English so I'm translating it back instead of quoting verbatim). You want to make the world a better place? Start with yourself. It's Connor's death that finally opens Angel's eyes. Angel dies for Connor - and, paradoxically, saves everybody. Including Connor's killer. Oh, the irony.

Angel dies and gets resurrected in a world where people admire him as the savior of the world. He becomes an instant celebrity. I wonder if that's *the* catch for the next mini-arc that will be penned by Kelly Armstrong. Judging by current BtVS comics, Joss is interested in celebrity culture and informational wars. The only problem I see -- this theme could clash with overall AtS mood. Celebrity culture is great material for satire, but AtS is a tragic show and Angel is a tragic hero. But we'll see.

I wonder in Harmony arc on BtVS is a shard of this new universe and celebrity!Angel is another step towards a crossover.

Looks like Wesley is gone forever. Angel's goodbye line "thank you, rogue demon hunter" was perfect and sounded like the ultimate farewell. I suppose that now Wesley's function is relegated to Gunn - another Angel's friend who did horrible things to Angel's son. Gunn got the most interesting arc on AtF and his current situation is a perfect set-up for the next step in his journey.

Illyria's arc was also powerful and compelling. God discovering her humanity - it's a theme that, apparently, haunted Joss since he came up with Glorificus: "But I'm not supposed to
feel guilty! I'm not supposed to feel anything! I'm a God. I'm above it, I'm... You! You did this to me, didn't you? Some kind of spell. You've been hanging with the Wicca, you could have ... but no. Not magic. It's something else." (The Weight of the World). I think that Joss created Illyria partly to explore the issue further - and Lynch proved to be a good accomplice. His Illyria is funny, tragic, determined, lost - more and more human with each issue. When she goes on rampage in issue 15, her actions echo Willow's at the end of season 6 of BtVS.

Spike's arc was the least interesting, although, paradoxically, he has got a lot of memorable scenes and lines. Maybe I'm just spoiled by great Spike fics and subconsciously expected more Spangel action and Spuffy mentions.

BTW, about fics. Here's a rec for Spuffies on my f-list who enjoy After the Fall - Perfect World by Cousinjean. This story shares many common elements with AtF: artificially created hell dimension, complex and twisted story, Lindsey and Gunn cameos and final reboot with memories kept intact. ...Post-Grave, Spike wishes he hadn't been chipped - and finds himself in a post-apocalyptic world ruled by Adam, where Buffy is chipped and kept in a cell in former Initiative headquarters, while Giles is the head of the Resistance movement. The best BtVS dystopia I ever read.

I know that my attitude to comics is colored by reading countless fanfics that explored every possible twist on the verse. Yet Lynch's technique of building twist upon twist upon twist is gripping and full of tension. Sometimes it was hard to follow all the intricacies of the plot and I often had to reread pages and whole issues twice to understand their full meaning. But, in the end, the emotional payoff is incredible. Great issue. Great mini-series. Fooking forward to the last issue.

P.S.
A cynic in me whispers that now Fang Gang knows how to fix *any* mistake: just kill off Angel and the verse will be reloaded automatically.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com
A cynic in me whispers that now Fang Gang knows how to fix *any* mistake: just kill off Angel and the verse will be reloaded automatically.

Heeee! I hadn't thought about that, but... oh, the crackfic opportunities.

Nice review!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sueworld2003.livejournal.com
OMG Angel is the Kenny of the Buffyverse! *g*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com
Oh my God! You killed Angel!

YOU BASTARDS!

No, I've got one better...

Oh my God! You killed Connor!

YOU BASTARDS!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com
"That's it?" Gunn looked up from the books. "We've spent 48 hours researching this demon, and the info we needed was this obvious?"

"Bloody hell," Spike sneered. "Like we couldn't have done something better with that time."

"Yeah, it sucks. Me and Gwen were supposed to go to the beach yesterday."

"Well, you know what to do, kiddo." Gunn handed the stake to Connor.

Connor grumbled. "I don't see why I have to kill him every time."

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sueworld2003.livejournal.com
"I don't see why I have to kill him every time."

*snort*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:38 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Here's mine: :))))))

"We've got a serious problem. Spike, get your hard and pointy ready."

"It's always ready."

"Not the one in your pants, Spike."

"Oh. You know, I'm bloody tired of dusting Angel. Could we invite one of your slayers, Gunn? It's their professional duty."

"No, I'm afraid. Tonight they all work as extras in Harmony's TV show."

"Bugger."

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 02:51 am (UTC)
goodbyebird: Batman returns: Catwoman seen through a glass window. (Default)
From: [personal profile] goodbyebird
XD

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
*laughing so hard I start coughing*

Bwah!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:29 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Nice review!

Thanks!

crackfic opportunities.

As well as crack!critisism opportunities - f.ex. "Lynch turns killing and/or suicide into the ultimate means of trouble-shooting". :))

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
So perhaps we should rethink Dawn's plan to kill herself in Him. What if she could have saved the world? :O

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 09:25 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Hmmm.... when you start thinking about all the situations where the best problem-solving is death - it becomes scary. Buffy or Dawn in The Gift. Angel's death in Becoming. "Death is your gift". In Jossverse it's always about death, about blood. Looks like after 12-plus seasons the idea got its ultimate incarnation.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sueworld2003.livejournal.com
Well apart from a few nigles I rather liked it and it managed to illicit in me far stronger emotions then all of season 8 so far. I actually welled up at the return of Connoer and poor Wesleys exit.

This is the nearest thing that I've read that was a spin off and yet felt in the spirit of the original show.

I have to say I'm now rather dreading 'Aftermath' as I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the best is now behind us. :(

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 08:00 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
I actually welled up at the return of Connor and poor Wesley's exit.

I also sniffled. I was spoiled but the actual scene was so powerful it felt totally fresh. Practically on par with Cordelia's scenes.

This is the nearest thing that I've read that was a spin off and yet felt in the spirit of the original show.

*nods*

I have to say I'm now rather dreading 'Aftermath' as I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the best is now behind us. :(

Me, too. But I try to persuade myself that everything will be OK.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
I have to say I'm now rather dreading 'Aftermath' as I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the best is now behind us. :(

I'm worried because Armstrong is such an unknown entity. Can she write the characters? Can she write a comic?

*shrugs* Dunno.

I'm going to buy the first one but I'm a bit scared to see what'll happen.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 12:03 am (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
I haven't read her. Armstrong has a lot of fans - her forum is pretty big. But, so far, the only Angel thread is practically inactive.

http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=112;t=23746

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com
I'd venture a guess that those fanfics you're reading more often than not treat Spike as the most important character. Then you read something "official" or at least Joss-executive-produced, and get disappointed when Spike isn't treated as the most important character.

Then again, I remember back when Season 4 of BtVS first aired, there were tons of fans of Angel, B/A, Cordelia, and C/X who were still pissed that, by having Buffy and Xander move on to new relationships, or at least not visibly dwelling on Angel, Cordy, and the old 'ships in every single episode, that Joss and the writers were being disrespectful to those 'ships and the fans who invested them, and why wouldn't Joss at least give them a final measure of closure before moving on? And these were characters who were both still alive, on the same network, on another show.

None of this is a criticism, by the way. More like a way to point out that you're following a grand tradition of fans wanting more long after Joss thought he already gave it to you. *grins* (Wait...that sounded dirty.)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 08:17 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
I'd venture a guess that those fanfics you're reading more often than not treat Spike as the most important character. Then you read something "official" or at least Joss-executive-produced, and get disappointed when Spike isn't treated as the most important character.

You're right. Where are times when I regret that I haven't stopped following canon after Chosen. But then Joss and his writers create something wonderful like After the Fall, and I forgive myself for my masochism.

More like a way to point out that you're following a grand tradition of fans wanting more long after Joss thought he already gave it to you. *grins* (Wait...that sounded dirty.)

Don't I know it! :) I try to be philosophical. Joss gave us a great sandbox and even encourages us to play there. Could I ask more?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-23 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
Perhaps Joss isn't as skilled at fingering a Zeitgist as he thinks. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-27 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com
I think it's much more likely that Joss doesn't particularly care what the Zeitgeist is. For that matter, who is anybody to say what the "Zeitgeist" is? The audience is not universally in agreement on just about anything. Not everybody, for instance, cares whether or not Buffy knows if Spike is still alive, or whether or not Spike has any role at all in Season Eight. I certainly don't; if anything, I want Spike far, far away from Season Eight because I think he got too much story- and screentime in Seasons Six and Seven.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 02:55 am (UTC)
goodbyebird: Batman returns: Catwoman seen through a glass window. (Default)
From: [personal profile] goodbyebird
I've been well pleased with After the Fall. Now I'm just hoping it doesn't fall on its face once a new writer steps in.(is the writer the only one being replaced btw?)

And I wouldn't call it a complete happy ending, what with Wesley being gone for good *sniffles*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 09:12 am (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
(is the writer the only one being replaced btw?)

The latest from IDW: ANGEL #20 is written by Kelley Armstrong, art by Dave Ross, covers by Gabrield Rodriguez and Nick Runge. I don't know Ross, but here are examples of his panels:

http://lambiek.net/artists/r/ross_dave.htm

I wouldn't call it a complete happy ending, what with Wesley being gone for good *sniffles*

I was also crying. "Good-bye, rogue demon hunter." Awww.... Part of me still hopes for a miracle resurrection in the last issue. But, of course, it won't happen :(((

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 04:42 pm (UTC)
goodbyebird: Batman returns: Catwoman seen through a glass window. (Default)
From: [personal profile] goodbyebird
Huh, looks like we're in for a drastic change in art.

I was also crying. "Good-bye, rogue demon hunter." Awww.... Part of me still hopes for a miracle resurrection in the last issue. But, of course, it won't happen :(((

Well, Wesley did say in the first or second issue of the series "I'd give anything", so he really did want to rest. I'm gonna miss him though. Right now I'm watching s1 of Angel(I've actually never watched the entire series, only read the transcripts), so I guess I'll be getting a lot of Wesley anyways ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com
. Part of me still hopes for a miracle resurrection in the last issue. But, of course, it won't happen :(((

Hang on--

They know how to build that machine that Gunn built though, don't they? To restore the body placed on it to its original form? There's still hope then...right?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:40 am (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
There's still hope then...right?

Have you seen the covers for the first Aftermath issues? No Wes, no Spike, no Gunn, no Illyria, no Lorne...

http://angearia.livejournal.com/8868.html#cutid1

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com
Well that doesn't have to mean anything. I just went to a comic book store today to pick up this issue, and there's always various covers...I'm not putting too much thought into that. You can't axe the whole main cast. Well you could, but it'd be stupid, and so far, they've given me no reason to suspect an iota of stupidity ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:56 am (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Hopefully you're right.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 12:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] larabeckinsale.livejournal.com
Great review!

Agree, Angel's goodbye line "thank you, rogue demon hunter" fits extremely well, perfect for saying goodbye to Wesley.

I'm still trying to grasp everything that happened in AtF, kinda need to read the whole thing twice to get it, it was full of surprises! I think Lynch did a good job with this story, much, much better than what they're doing with buffy season 8

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 08:17 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
I'm still trying to grasp everything that happened in AtF, kinda need to read the whole thing twice to get it, it was full of surprises!

Oh, I have been re-reading every issue at least twice to understand all twists and to get all references. I wonder if the last issue will have some surprises! :)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 03:22 pm (UTC)
lynnenne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lynnenne
Great review.

Lynch, with Joss' blessing, successfully turned inside out Angel's arc in season 4 when Angel's journey became an antithesis to the idea of God.

Well put. I found the whole arc really satisfying, on both an emotional and philosophical level.

Gunn got the most interesting arc on AtF and his current situation is a perfect set-up for the next step in his journey.

Agreed, no question. I haven't been reading the Buffyverse comics (although I have been following the reviews), but of all the characters in AtF, I think Gunn would be the most interesting to bring over into that verse. There's so much left to do with him, and Joss would finally get to explore Gunn's character in a way that he never did on the shows.

It would also be neat to have him stay with Angel and watch them try to repair that relationship, but I don't trust Armstrong to handle it properly. I won't be reading Aftermath.


(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 08:43 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Great review.

Thank you!

I think Gunn would be the most interesting to bring over into that verse. There's so much left to do with him, and Joss would finally get to explore Gunn's character in a way that he never did on the shows.

I'm so sad it didn't happen on TV. I agree, crossing Gunn over to BtVS would be a great move. But I noticed that people are ready to accept him as Buffy's nemesis, and I rather see him as a reluctant ally. But, in any case, now he has a very controversial connection with slayers (girls he used for training remember him) and this set-up could be developed into a fascinating story.

It would also be neat to have him stay with Angel and watch them try to repair that relationship, but I don't trust Armstrong to handle it properly. I won't be reading Aftermath.

I think I'll try to read at least two or three issues before making a decision. I can't shake off the feeling that the last issue of AtF will have some Joss-worthy twist that will serve as a cliffhanger for the next arc.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 04:45 pm (UTC)
ext_2333: "That's right,  people, I am a constant surprise." (Default)
From: [identity profile] makd.livejournal.com
Excellent meta. Love3 the Angel comics, and the plot sizzles.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-01-24 08:47 pm (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
Thank you! I agree, the whole journey was incredible. But it's not over yet. If Joss was writing AtF, I'd be 100% sure of a nasty surprise in the last issue. About Lynch - I don't know. I want it, I dread it, I'm biting nails...

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com
I think that Joss created Illyria partly to explore the issue further - and Lynch proved to be a good accomplice. His Illyria is funny, tragic, determined, lost - more and more human with each issue. When she goes on rampage in issue 15, her actions echo Willow's at the end of season 6 of BtVS.

Well, there was Jasmine as well. What I always found interesting was that when Jasmine couldn’t “save” the world the way she wanted to, she set out to destroy it. When Illyria couldn’t destroy the world so she could have free reign, she decided to learn how to walk in it. Maybe Fred’s memories affected her from point one, or maybe she’s just better at adapting *shrug*

And Wesley…is he in hell now? I mean, he’s still contractually stuck with W&H, like Lilah, right, or did he sign something else?

And this—the celebrity thing is exactly what I surmised when I saw that Harmony issue. Angel saved millions of people from hell. The “vampire” and his cadre of demons saved all of those people. It doesn’t seem to go beyond LA borders, but my thinking is that people had to be visiting LA at the time it was sunk to Hell—non LA denizens. Surely they’d know, go back home…spread the good word of Angel and vampires? Makes the whole “root for Harmony” thing more plausible. In fact, shouldn’t Harm have been in that hell too? It’s doubtful she would have made it out of the city before they were sent to Hell…

Sorry for rambling :P

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-01 01:55 am (UTC)
ext_7259: (Default)
From: [identity profile] moscow-watcher.livejournal.com
It doesn’t seem to go beyond LA borders, but my thinking is that people had to be visiting LA at the time it was sunk to Hell—non LA denizens. Surely they’d know, go back home…spread the good word of Angel and vampires?

Given that LA is the world capital of showbiz I think that the good word can spread very quickly. Just imagine a TV show about a valorous vampyre where Andrew Wells works as a consultant.

:))

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