Buffy #17 and Spike After the Fall #2 (kinda) reviews

[moscow_watcher]

Buffy #17

... in which Buffy and Fray recognize each other as slayers; Fray's brother' Garth, conspires with Evil!Willow to do something evil; and Xander rides Dawn.

Honestly, I couldn't figure out so many visuals in this issue it was embarrassing. The first panels open with Fray and her sister Erin ambushing vamps' flying van in the vicinity of a gigantic statue surrounded by force field reflecting bullets and firing laser beams. First, I was sure that Erin was Buffy - they look like twin sisters. Second, I didn't figure out that the gigantic old man who raises his hand like he makes a spell is actually a statue. I thought it was somebody (something) similar to "elemental creatures" who helped Willow in issue 4.

Then I read other reviews and asked questions and people explained me and when I read the issue for the third time, I was able to follow the plot. And after reading in stormwreath's review "It took me a while to figure out that image" - I felt a little better. He's one of the cleverest people in the fandom, and it took him a while to figure it out!

And now I wonder why Joss decided to make such a strange experiment and plunge readers who aren't acquainted with Fray story into a completely different universe. Was it an intentional shock, one more declaration that this is not the show we used to watch on TV - or Joss has just miscalculated the level of disorientation?

The comparison to Chain is inevitable but superficial. In Chain we had all new characters and a pretty simple storyline told in a non-chronological order. Here we have a girl with Buffy face - who turns out to be Fray's sister; we have a girl with Drusilla's characteristics - who turns out to be Willow; and we have a complex plot full of riddles, vague hints and blatant misleads.

Talking about riddles.

-- Erin looks like Buffy's twin sister. A hack work or a set-up for a future plot twist?

-- All sources describe evil!Willow as "madwoman". A mislead (to make the audience think of Dru) or a future important plot point?

-- "Gates. The last great watcher. Sacrificed himself at the battle of Starbucks." Gates = Giles?

-- "What happens in your time will cause your time to come" (Evil!Willow). Is she another Willow, from a previous timeline? Or she's got trapped in a time-loop and is forced to repeat the same ritual ad aeternam? And how could she know what will happen if she's not a time-traveller? I remember only one instance of an event being chronicled before it happened and, curiously, that moment is closely connected to Willow and events of season 8: Willow "zips up" Warren's mouth and skins him on the last minute of Villains, but the depiction of her tortures appear on Lloyd's wall at least 10 minutes earlier (29-th minute of the episode).

OTOH, maybe "your time" just means "vampire kingdom on Earth". And, since we know from spoilers, that in the next arc "Buffy's world goes public" and "vampires become common knowledge", maybe evil!Willow's actions are destined to trigger these events by doing something to Buffy before she sends her back. Or maybe she sends her into the animated universe of issue 20.

But I'm nurturing a theory that Willow (from a previous timeline) somehow found out in advance about Giles' untimely death and developed a complex plan to prevent it. Don't ask me how. Joss' stories are always full of gigantic plot holes and so far the only way to predict the plot developments was to look at it from the emotional standpoint. And emotionally I can't see Willow turning to dark side permanently. First of all - been there, done that, bored now. Second, it just don't feel right. But maybe this new season has new rules regarding the characters.

Last, but not least: these two days I'm reading a discussion about season 8 and if it feels like season 1. A year ago when I read the first issues I used to think that season 8 feels like season 1. Now I think it feels like season 1... of another show. Kinda Alias-cum-Dr.Who-cum-good old BtVS.

I hope that people who dismiss critical approach to season 8 as "whining and bitching" won't get me wrong. Yes, it does feel as a reboot to me. Yes, maybe it's the only way BtVS could survive in another medium. And I like reading it, but the passion is gone. I'm a Spike fan and maybe his absence is one of the reasons of my tepid attitude to season 8.

So, Spike: After the Fall, issue 2

... in which our boy meets the dragon, gets touched by a mysterious glowing man in a cocoon and fights an evil pixie who sucks life force out of her victims.

I enjoyed it. It's a transitional issue of a transitional arc, but dialogs are stellar and Spike's voice is spot-on.

"Sorry, Puff". Does it mean that dragon's actual name is Puff? And the person who named him was Spike? If that's the case, no wonder Angel was so embarrassed to tell dragon's name to Connor!

Spike's strategizing about slaying the dragon is hysterical ("Plug up nostrils. Tries to blow smoke. Head explodes. Effective and entertaining") as is Spike's "Penthouse letter" in the middle of his fight with furious Amazons.

Evil pixie is fun and her minion who is preoccupied with regulating everything, including humor, are priceless.

As usual, Urru excels at drawing movements, especially fights. Pity we don't get a big damn panel of Spike riding the dragon. I hope this is not their last encounter. Spike riding Puff - that would be quite a sight! :)

But, instead we get another scene with hysterically funny sexual subtext: when Spike meets Spider, she bristles up with eight spider legs and he, in response, aims his knife at her. Talk about the battle of sexes.

The only panel that got me confused was the one with a glowing man in a cocoon. My first thought was that it was a fiery portal to hell. Then, after reading other peoples' reviews, I realized that I was wrong and the glowing entity is a man, probably Angel, slowly convalescing after the battle. Upon second reading I appreciated fully the powerful metaphor of Angel's moral suffering after he inadvertently sent LA to hell. Later in the issue Spike endures similar moral torture when evil pixie harms people he protects.

We leave our boy battered, bloodied, chained and desperate. We already know that he "stepped up" and evil pixie's minions "began following" him (Angel: AtF, issue 4). Still, even if the outcome is already known, it's interesting to find out how Spike managed to become their leader. He has always been good with women and to women. Even when he was unsouled. Funnily, characters' attitude to Spike reflects fandom's attitude. They either love to torture him or revel in nurturing and loving him. Looks like the next issue will be thrilling.

Interestingly, at one point evil pixie repeats Buffy's phrase in Potential: "You're all gonna die". In the next issue we'll see if she adopted other Buffyisms. ;-)

Comments

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

And, since we know from spoilers, that in the next arc "Buffy's world goes public" and "vampires become common knowledge"

*sigh*

We didn't all know that. We do now.

[rowanda380.livejournal.com]

agreed.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* Sorry I spoiled it for you. But I added a warning about spoilers. Sorry again.

[rowanda380.livejournal.com]

"Sorry, Puff". Does it mean that dragon's actual name is Puff?

I doubt it, I think it is just a reference to Puff the Magic Dragon.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I think it is just a reference to Puff the Magic Dragon

I must confess that I never heard about this song before . *iz embarrassed*

But could Spike's joking reference make dragon believe that it's his real name?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

how could she know what will happen if she's not a time-traveller?

Maybe because 250-year-old Willow remembers Buffy coming back from the future and telling 25-year-old Willow what happens? ;-) Based on everything that's said in the issue, I'm not sure there's any more to Willow being there than simply that she's become either immortal or very long-lived and simply lived through it all. It would make sense of why she's dressed like Drusilla: something went very wrong in her past - Buffy's present - and Willow has been in mourning for 200 years. No wonder she'd go mad. Of course, whether she's there to prevent that happening or make it happen remains to be seen...

Willow "zips up" Warren's mouth and skins him on the last minute of Villains, but the depiction of her tortures appear on Lloyd's wall at least 10 minutes earlier (29-th minute of the episode).

How do you figure that? D'Hoffryn mentions it in "Selfless."

emotionally I can't see Willow turning to dark side permanently

Agreed, though a) we still don't know if that's what's happened, and b) even if she does in this timeline, that's not necessarily saying she WILL go permanently dark. I still think this is Season 8's version of "The Wish" or "Hell's Bells"; here's where they could end up if they do something wrong.

I'm reading a discussion about season 8 and if it feels like season 1.

That thread confuses me. I must say I can't remember seeing a single review - at least not in the last year - that says Season 8 is like season 1 of BtVS; there might have been the odd one that I've missed, but "almost all"? Where? Why make up criticisms only to refute them?

"Sorry, Puff". Does it mean that dragon's actual name is Puff?

Reference to the children's song "Puff, the Magic Dragon."

Upon second reading I appreciated fully the powerful metaphor of Angel's moral suffering after he inadvertently sent LA to hell.

Purgatory?

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* I totally clicked that link hoping to hear Puff the Magic Dragon. I haven't heard it in a very long time. God, that song used to bring me to tears every time I heard it.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

How do you figure that? D'Hoffryn mentions it in "Selfless."

I think the events in Villains are supposed to happen in chronological order. If we're shown on 29-th min. the pictures of the events that will happen onscreen in 10 minutes it means these pics appeared before the actual events happened.

Or maybe it was just a continuity error *shrugs*

Reference to the children's song "Puff, the Magic Dragon."

Thanks for the link - very educative! Still, I can imagine that upon hearing Spike's words, the dragon decided that Puff is his real name. He may be new to human civilization; he may try to adapt to human standards by accepting the first name he's called. :)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"That thread confuses me. I must say I can't remember seeing a single review - at least not in the last year - that says Season 8 is like season 1 of BtVS; there might have been the odd one that I've missed, but "almost all"? Where? Why make up criticisms only to refute them?"

Because the person who started the thread got her facts slightly wrong. Someone said something along those lines, but not the way she was putting it.

I'm glad that you didn't remember anyone saying that either. I thought I was going mad myself. *g*


There's a lot of 'born again' season 8 folk on there aren't there. :0

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

Based on everything that's said in the issue, I'm not sure there's any more to Willow being there than simply that she's become either immortal or very long-lived and simply lived through it all.

Or: She's turned Vampire. :-) But I guess then we'd see her in her goth-leather-outfit Vamp!Willow wore in "Doppelgangland" :-)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Talk about misheard lyrics. I always thought it was 'little Jackie Baker' not Paper. I've been singing that song incorrectly my entire life.

[kathyh]

First, I was sure that Erin was Buffy - they look like twin sisters.

Yes, me too. I was trying to work out how long Buffy had been in Fray's universe since we last saw her when I realised it wasn't Buffy!

Was it an intentional shock, one more declaration that this is not the show we used to watch on TV - or Joss has just miscalculated the level of disorientation?

My cynical side thinks that Joss wants to pique our interest in Fray so we'll all rush out and buy the paperback so we can work out what the hell is going on.

Despite my confusion I am enjoything this story arc and was totally gobsmacked at the revelation on the last page.

Agree absolutely about Spike:After the Fall. Delicious fun.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

My cynical side thinks that Joss wants to pique our interest in Fray so we'll all rush out and buy the paperback so we can work out what the hell is going on.

Yes, I thought about it too. Pretty possible that Fox and Dark Horse plan to milk the franchise as long as it's milkable. Recent talks about reviving Buffy: Animated series seem to point in this direction.

was totally gobsmacked at the revelation on the last page

Me too.

Spike:After the Fall. Delicious fun.

Hee!

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

My cynical side thinks that Joss wants to pique our interest in Fray so we'll all rush out and buy the paperback so we can work out what the hell is going on.

And this is me, thinking: Well, Joss really handled it well to give all important Fray-information to the reader so they don't have to grab the Fray-paperback in case they don't want.
On the other hand, I *know* the Fray-Story and therefore could follow quite easily.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"But I'm nurturing a theory that Willow (from a previous timeline) somehow found out in advance about Giles' untimely death and developed a complex plan to prevent it."

Surely you jest? *g* I don't believe that Joss gives a flying f*ck about Giles character myself. I certainly don't think that any plan of Wilow's would even touch on his character, let along be an integral part of it sadly.

I'm guessing that the whole dark Will bit won't be just a simple,retread of season 6, but something completely new. In fact I think Wilow's motivations will turn out to be something else entirely, not just a revenge kick or some such.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I don't believe that Joss gives a flying f*ck about Giles character myself.

I still hope that Giles will be back and his return will play an important part in the seasonal arc. *shrugs* Hope dies last.

I think Willow's motivations will turn out to be something else entirely, not just a revenge kick or some such.

ITA. I hope she is not evil and she plays a dangerous game with Harth.

(Oh, and your icon is hysterical) :)))))

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

Hope so.
I could imagine that Willow - although she *might* have turned dark - tries to follow a greater plan preventing things from going worse some hundred years ago in the "present"

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Gates is the name of the monkey that "attacks" Fray's sister. It's not the name of the last great watcher who sacrificed himself.

Just thought I'd correct you on that...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I've got the impression that Fray has named her monkey after "Gates" whoever he is.

I realize that my "Gates=Giles" spec is shaky because it's based only on the assumption that this exchange between Fray and her sister has to be relevant to the overall plot because otherwise it's pointless. This dialog contains a lot of cryptic information and hardly adds anything to characters development.

But I may be wrong. I haven't read Fray and I feel disoriented in its mythology.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

You've got me blushing now.

But it seems that I actually misinterpreted that image wrongly after all; the statue is Alan Moore, not Jesus. And it's debateable whether it's a beam being fired from the statue, or the van simply hitting the forcefield and fire spreading out across its surface.


As for the story, Joss's technique is actually reminding me a bit of my first term at university. School had been pretty easy, I'd coasted along getting good marks, but then I found myself in a tutorial with someone who was not only asking me searching questions about things I didn't know much about, but I couldn't even understand the concepts behind them. Let alone the vocabulary - I remember a couple of us afterwards having to go and look up exactly what "teleological" meant...

So I was floundering about trying desperately to understand what the hell was going on, and slowly slowly things started to fall into place, and I began to understand the tutor's questions and even (sometimes) come up with coherent replies. Reading Joss's comics feels a bit like that. He's operating on a higher plane than the rest of us, and storylines and plot developments that probably seem perfectly clear and straightforward to him are baffling to us ordinary mortals.

In other words, what he needs is a beta reader. :-)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

You've got me blushing now.

Sorry - I didn't mean to. I just tried to find an excuse for my own thickness. :)

Reading Joss's comics feels a bit like that. He's operating on a higher plane than the rest of us, and storylines and plot developments that probably seem perfectly clear and straightforward to him are baffling to us ordinary mortals.

OTOH, in the first arc, The Long Way Home, Joss' secrets were too easy to figure out. The lipgloss clue was so obvious it was hard to believe that the solution was so simple.

Maybe it's the combination of two factors - crossover stuff and time-travel (which, frankly, never makes much sense) - that makes this arc so hard to figure out.

In other words, what he needs is a beta reader. :-)

Hee!

[shapinglight]

But, instead we get another scene with hysterically funny sexual subtext: when Spike meets Spider, she bristles up with eight spider legs and he, in response, aims his knife at her. Talk about the battle of sexes.

OMG! I never even thought of that! I think I was too busy going eww! over the spider legs.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I think I was too busy going eww! over the spider legs.

Yes, me too. Funnily, the scene reminded me final Mal\Operative standoff in Serenity when Operative brandishes his sword and Mal snaps up a crowbar. :)

[next_to_normal]

Was it an intentional shock, one more declaration that this is not the show we used to watch on TV - or Joss has just miscalculated the level of disorientation?

I think perhaps Joss has miscalculated the level of interest in Fray. ;) Or he's trying to drum up renewed interest in Fray by making it required reading to understand season 8. (Does that sound cynical?) I've only seen the preview pages, and I was pretty confused by Fray's sister looking like Buffy, too.

Willow "zips up" Warren's mouth and skins him on the last minute of Villains, but the depiction of her tortures appear on Lloyd's wall at least 10 minutes earlier (29-th minute of the episode).

Okay, I haven't watched season 6 in a while, but I have no idea what you're talking about here... there were pictures of what Willow did to Warren before it happened? I remember the D'Hoffryn line from "Selfless," but that's the only reference to pictures...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Or he's trying to drum up renewed interest in Fray by making it required reading to understand season 8. (Does that sound cynical?)

Cynical but very convincing! :)

there were pictures of what Willow did to Warren before it happened?

In the African cave where Spike undergoes his trials:

(http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/BtVScaps3/?action=view&current=Lloyds_wall.jpg)

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Loved your reviews!

All sources describe evil!Willow as "madwoman". A mislead (to make the audience think of Dru) or a future important plot point?
I thought the whole hinting at Dru thing was a bit overdone. Also what did make Willow change her wardrobe so drastically.
It looks like evil!Willow at least had an affair with Dru within the last 200 years (which would actually be fun).

I like your Willow wants to prevent Giles death theory a lot. So far I'm pretty much at a loss for her motives. I hope it has some connection to twilight and the bigger picture though.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Loved your reviews!

Thanks!

It looks like evil!Willow at least had an affair with Dru within the last 200 years (which would actually be fun).

*chokes over her tea*
Bwahaha! Write it! Write it! :)))))

I like your Willow wants to prevent Giles death theory a lot. So far I'm pretty much at a loss for her motives. I hope it has some connection to twilight and the bigger picture though.

I think/hope she transformed herself to live long enough to meet Buffy "at the other side" and to send her back and possibly warn her about something. And Harth is just a pawn in her game.

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

That wasn't Buffy? I thought it was a flash forward or something. Maybe I watch too much Lost.

I much prefer the Angel and Spike comics.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

That wasn't Buffy? I thought it was a flash forward or something. Maybe I watch too much Lost.

My thoughts exactly. And I also watch Lost a lot! :)