Buffy issue 8 - summary and analysis

[moscow_watcher]

Issue 6 review Issue 7 review

Summary:

Although Gigi and Faith have met less than 12 hours ago, Faith is already Gigi's best friend and she trusts her completely. Gigi tells Faith that she has bought surveillance tapes with Buffy, although they cost her a fortune/ and she's studying Buffy for months. She regards Buffy as a "misguided monarch" who has to be assasinated. After Buffy's death Gigi will lead "her brainwashed slayers out of the shadows of servitude and into the light of..." But, of course, Roden interrupts her so the puppetmaster stays undisclosed. Roden says Gigi has to prepare to the "evening battle". She counters that she's ready and she'll spend the day with "Hope" (Faith).

Meanwhile Giles who hired a freelancer gnome Trafalgar tries to break the invisible magical barrier around the estate and contact Faith. Gnome suggests that his secret agent could get corrupted by rich life.

And, as a confirmation of his words, the next panel shows Faith and Gigi having a bath, bonding and discovering they're kindred spirits. Gigi complains that she had never been allowed to commuticate with other children and endured "home schooling with increasingly pervy tutors". Turns out Gigi has nightmares and Roden assured her they'll stop as soon as Buffy will be assasinated.

Buffy and Willow are at Command Central. Willow reports that their radar system is online and running, and enquires about financing the whole slayer system. "We have friends with pockets deeper than the ones in Dawnie's giant pants, Will," Buffy replies. "But some donors like to stay anonimous, you know?" Willow asks about Twilight and Buffy replies that she's ready to fight them. "Not killing humans is that separates us from bad guys", Willow says. "No, not being bad is what separates us from the bad guys," Buffy replies. "You're really ready to go all slayer on human beings? For keeps?" Willow asks. "I honestly don't know. I guess we'll cross that bridge..." and Buffy disappears, teleported by Rodin...

... straight into the armoury in the Savidge estate. Gigi attacks Buffy with a sword, bragging that she killed another slayer. Buffy trips up Gigi, grabs her sword, but, before she can attack Gigi Faith leaps at her and together they fall out of the window down into the swimming pool. They fight in the water; Faith tries to explain that she's working undercover and was sent here by Giles, but Buffy doesn't believe her. Evil voices in Faith's head urge her to kill Buffy but she squashes them and asks Buffy to go away. And away Buffy goes, teleported back to the castle by Willow. "Get me Giles", she says. The expression of her face isn't Giles-friendly.

Speaking of Giles, the last panel with Faith and Gigi reenacts that famous last scene in Sleeper when Bringer raises an axe intent to decapitate Giles...



Analysis:

As a character arc, it's great storytelling. Faith's past comes back to haunt her; she always was used and exploited, and she tries to break down this vicious circle by helping another girl not to be used, exploited and killed. But, Faith's luck is... well... Faith's luck. No matter what she does she ends up guilty. It will stay forever unclear if she has saved Buffy's life when she killed Mayor's deputy in Bad Girls. I suppose it will stay forever unclear if she has saved Buffy again in this issue (because Roden was definitely conjuring some evil magic in the background when Faith pushed Buffy out of the window).

But no matter what happens Buffy is the winner and Faith is the loser. And, the more the writer tortures the character, the more we love him.

Interestingly, this issue's hidden storylines are at direct opposition to the open ones. On the surface we have Faith as the ultimate loner, who's cut off the other slayers and their sisterhood. She's losing herself, losing the battle, losing the meaning of life. But if we look at the situation more closely, it's Buffy who's losing it. Her organization is financed by anonimous sponsor. Giles is working behind her back. She's ready to kill humans.

I just can't figure out if it's a temporary plot necessity or a seasonal throughline. On the TV show Buffy killed humans, directly and indirectly, without consequences, when current story demanded it (The Pack, Revelations, Spiral). Then another story demanded "no killing humans" approach (Bad Girls, Dead Things) and Buffyverse moral twisted accordingly.

Anyway, today's partyline is obviously "no killing humans", so, in the end, Faith is right when she stops Buffy from killing Gigi. Vaughan did great job with Faith - her dialogues and thoughts sound very true to character. It's obvious with whom his sympathy lies. :)

But, as great as the personal character journey is, the universe characters live in becomes less and less coherent.

In the first seven seasons, human world and magic world existed in parallel without attempts to conquer each other. Incidentally, demons and sorcerers exploited human foibles but demons didn't want to rule human world. Either they were peaceful demons or we looked too unappealing to them.

Season 8 introduces Roden who is a powerful wizard, has global plans and wants to dominate humanity. So - the rules has changed. But the writers don't notice it. Or just don't care.

But - if Roden can teleport any person to any place, he rules the world by default. He can abduct world leaders. He can abduct wealthiest people in the world. Why on earth is he wasting his time on a bitchy slayer? Is he in love with her? Not likely. Is he using her to compromise the whole slayer movement? From a logical standpoint is seems to be the most likely option - but, again, what for? If Roden can teleport slayers anywhere he wants why not teleport Buffy (and other girls) into a blast-furnace?

One can argue that Rodin wanted to pander to Gigi and to give her the satisfaction of killing Buffy. But, again - why Roden needs Gigi at all? As a future head of his security service? Hardly: she's volatile and can't be controlled. And - does Roden need slayers to protect him? His magical barrier around the estate can be broken only by a very powerful magician, and slayers are powerless against magic.

Which brings another interesting point. In the first arc the axis of real power was between Willow and Amy. In this one the axis of real power is between Roden and Willow. It's magic that ultimately decides the outcome of this or that battle. It's magic that raises zomby army and neutralizes it. It's magic that abducts people and returns them. Buffy and other slayers are just puppets in the battle of wizards and witches.

Yet the show is still called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (although we only meet vampires in Buffy's erotic dream), not Willow the Good Witch. And this discrepancy slowly becomes more and more obvious. So far Willow-ex-machina is handled deftly enough, and if the reader doesn't dig too deep, it works. Just don't try to think about it too much.

Bits and pieces:

-- Gigi says she has paid a fortune for the surveillance tapes. Are these tapes from the castle of from the stores Buffy visits? Why would store surveillance tapes cost a fortune? Is there a traitor in the castle?

-- Before Roden interrupts her, Gigi says: "We can lead her brainwashed slayers... into the light of--" Of what? "Into the light of the Twilight?" Sounds so very wrong. Obviously Gigi was planning to say something else. Yet Roden was using the "guidebook" with Twilight symbols when he was teleporting Buffy.

-- Gigi talking about "just another filthy pedo" was quite disturbing. Was she raped?

-- Willow installs radar system in the castle. Then she talks about "non-inexpensive defences". But radar itself isn't "defences". I'm technically ignorant but I've got the impression that radar only warns about approaching dangerous objects. And, since Willow talks about "defences" does it mean they have missiles and other stuff?

-- Roden calls Buffy "the first of the last", when he reads his "guidebook". Interesting.

Comments

[goodbyebird]

I'm thinking it's very probable that she's got a spy somewhere in the castle. In the previous issue her walls were plastered with photos of Buffy, some of the taken at the castle I believe.

I'll agree with you on Roden though. Why he would need Gigi is beyond me. If he can teleport people from miles away, he could probably take care of Buffy himself.

And it's obvious to em too, it's Buffy that seems to be losing her foothold some here. Faith's desperately trying to do good, to make the right choices and fight the demons of her past, while the gang keeps using her for the dirty work and leaving her out in the cold. I hope this isn't the last we see of her though.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

In the previous issue her walls were plastered with photos of Buffy, some of the taken at the castle I believe.

Or during the missions. In the first issue somebody was watching Buffy's squad from the air. Could be Roden's spy. Or even Roden himself.

I hope this isn't the last we see of her though

Faith spinoff could be great! :)

[goodbyebird]

wait wait, a spinoff has actually been confirmed??

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Oops! No, it's my wishful thinking. Sorry for misleading you!

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"Just don't try to think about it too much."

I think thats the motto for the whole damn series so far. *g*

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Let's be philosophical about it. It's entertainment, after all. You can't catch the lightning in a bottle TWICE.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

In the first seven seasons, human world and magic world existed in parallel without attempts to conquer each other. Incidentally, demons and sorcerers exploited human foibles but demons didn't want to rule human world.

Um... isn't ruling the human world exactly what the Master wanted to do? With 'The Wish' there to show us what things would look like if he won? And Mayor Wilkins was a human sorceror who wanted to become the demonic ruler of humanity - much like Roden.


if Roden can teleport any person to any place, he rules the world by default.

I think that's a big assumption. So far, all we've seen him do is teleport one specific person to his own location. The wording of his spell - "Bring the first of the last to me" - implies that that's all he can do. In fact, since he's casting the spell at twilight and invoking the power of "the magic hour", it looks like he can only cast the spell at one precise moment, too...

I'm guessing that whatever evil magic ritual Roden is planning requires that Buffy (the source of the Slayer power, the first of the last) is killed by another Slayer. That's why he needs Gigi. (Or maybe the ritual will also work if you substitute Faith for Buffy?).


Buffy and other slayers are just puppets in the battle of wizards and witches.

It's a fine line; but I think both Buffy and Willow herself would reject that idea. Willow might have the raw power, but as a rule (Season 6 being the exception, of course) she respects Buffy's leadership and decision-making ability. It's the difference between a soldier carrying a big, powerful weapon, and his commanding officer armed with nothing but a map and a radio. Who's the most powerful?


Gigi talking about "just another filthy pedo" was quite disturbing. Was she raped?

She sounds a bit too blasé about it for it to be anything so extreme, but maybe a previous tutor did get a bit over-familiar. For that matter, I think Gigi's the sort of person to make up stories about a tutor she disliked making sexual advances to her, just to get him fired.


since Willow talks about "defences" does it mean they have missiles and other stuff?

In the previous issue she's discussing that very question with Dawn and Renee - she says that the radar can only warn them if there are bad guys approaching, and asks what they do to them once they arrive. Dawn, you'll notice, is casually ruthless; it's interesting that her sister gets asked the same question by Willow this issue, and is rather more ambivalent. It's obviously something that's bothering Willow a lot...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

isn't ruling the human world exactly what the Master wanted to do? With 'The Wish' there to show us what things would look like if he won? And Mayor Wilkins was a human sorceror who wanted to become the demonic ruler of humanity - much like Roden.

Master was a vampire, not a sorcerer. Vampires don't teleport, don't read minds, don't raise zombie armies, don't have the ability to end the world by the sheer force of will. Occasionally they use clumsy mojos (Judge, Acathla) but humans also use clumsy mojos (The Glove of Myhnegon, Trio's stuff) so vampires and humans are more or less even here.

I was talking about real wizards - D'Hoffrin, Lloyd, people at Coven. They never toyed with the idea of conquering humanity. So far BtVS resembled Harry Potter where human and magic world existed separately in the same space.

As to Mayor - good point, but I think he was an exception that only confirms the rule. Besides, he has never been depicted as a "true" wizard. He had no particular magic paraphernalia, he had never regarded himself as a sorcerer.

So far, all we've seen him do is teleport one specific person to his own location. The wording of his spell - "Bring the first of the last to me" - implies that that's all he can do.

You may be right. I suspect we'll never find out the exact scale of Roden's power and writers will intentionally keep it unclear to have some wiggling room when dealing with him. But, so far, Willow was the only person who could break through his barrier - and we know that Giles can be a very strong magician in an extreme situation.

It's the difference between a soldier carrying a big, powerful weapon, and his commanding officer armed with nothing but a map and a radio. Who's the most powerful?

You can take away a powerful weapon from a soldier but you can't take away magic abilities from a sorcerer.

For that matter, I think Gigi's the sort of person to make up stories about a tutor she disliked making sexual advances to her, just to get him fired.

Agree, there is a bit of manipulator in her.

In the previous issue she's discussing that very question with Dawn and Renee - she says that the radar can only warn them if there are bad guys approaching, and asks what they do to them once they arrive. Dawn, you'll notice, is casually ruthless; it's interesting that her sister gets asked the same question by Willow this issue, and is rather more ambivalent. It's obviously something that's bothering Willow a lot...

The question is if it's something writers consider important and these scattered lines about fighting against humans are a build-up for something serious; or we're supposed to suspend our disbelief and don't think much about it.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

On the TV show Buffy killed humans, directly and indirectly, without consequences, when current story demanded it (The Pack, Revelations, Spiral). Then another story demanded "no killing humans" approach (Bad Girls, Dead Things) and Buffyverse moral twisted accordingly.
I think you’re creating inconsistencies unnecessarily by conflating different instances of humans being killed.

In The Pack Buffy throws the zookeeper into the hyena pit after he has been (by his own will) possessed by them ie. chosen not to be human rather as the mayor did when he turned himself into a giant snake. The first instance of the idea that using slayer powers to kill humans is bad appears in Ted although he turns out to be neither dead nor human when Buffy thinks she is she’s ready to accept the legal (as defined by humans) consequences. In Revelations she separates Mrs Post from the glove but it’s unclear that this action will necessarily leads to Post’s death rather than simply remove her source of power. As with the zookeeper it appears that Post has chosen to trade part of her humanity for power and dies by it as he did. In Spiral she kills the knights while under attack by them in self-defence, a defence that human law also accepts. She clearly believes that that killing Warren would be wrong, although whether that is because Warren having undergone no magical tranformation should be dealt with by human laws or because Willow killing him as an act of vengeance would be entering down a path that would destroy Willow is unclear. Also important however is that this comes up in the context of Buffy being asked to consider killing Warren as similar to slaying vampires.

I think the show’s philosophy is quite consistent that Buffy using her Slayer powers to kill humans is bad. Even if it occurs accidentally while patrolling as happened with Deputy Finch and Katrina/Jonathan it’s a very serious matter. However, humans who voluntarily undergo some form of magical transformation in exchange for power no longer seem to be protected by this ‘rule’ and if humans attack her while knowing who she is and what they might expect (as the knights did) she is entitled to fight back. The possibility of human soldiers attacking castle Slayer seems most like the latter situation and she hasn’t said she’s prepared to kill them or let the other Slayers do so in the course of defensive action. When she says she thinks they should fight that’s before Willow’s told her that she may not be able to heal all the wounded in the way she did in issue 4. That healing power was something that Buffy explicitly depended on during that action and once she realises that it won’t always be an option she becomes quite uncertain as to what they should do.

Demons didn't want to rule human world
Some demons didn’t but The Master, The First, Illyria and Wolfram and Hart (via the apocalypse) had ambitions to.

Roden who is a powerful wizard, has global plans and wants to dominate humanity.
All we know about Roden’s plans are what he’s told Gigi and as it seems unlikely that he’s told her the whole truth or indeed any of it we have no idea what his plans are yet.

If Roden can teleport any person to any place
We don’t know he can do that all we seen is that he knows a spell that can call Buffy as “the first of the last.”

It's magic that raises zomby army and neutralizes it. It's magic that abducts people and returns them.
So magic seems to cancel itself out as we saw when Warren used Willow’s strength against her – it’s basically a light show and not the determining factor in the battles we’ve seen so far. Buffy defeated Amy by figuring out her psychological weaknesses. Similarily, Roden’s main power seems to be to control a couple of stone demons that Faith killed with her brain.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I think the show’s philosophy is quite consistent that Buffy using her Slayer powers to kill humans is bad.

Agree. But if Buffy's main opponent in season 8 will the Twilight, this philosophy has to be updated. Either writers are telling a fairy tale about good guys fighting evil soulless things that should be exterminated (and this extermination isn't qualified as killing). Or writers tell a story about one group of humans fighting another group of humans and, if writers are honest with themselves and the audience, they have to admit that in real war people kill other people.

I just can't figure out what kind of story season 8 is telling.

Some demons didn’t but The Master, The First, Illyria and Wolfram and Hart (via the apocalypse) had ambitions to.

Was the First a demon? I'm not sure. Illyria and W&H belong to AtS, not BtVS. AtS is a bit different universe with different human-demon dynamics. As to Master - I've got the impression that he wanted to rule the Hellmouth, not the whole humanity. Back in Sunnydale days demons had lesser ambitions... :) But I may be wrong.

All we know about Roden’s plans are what he’s told Gigi and as it seems unlikely that he’s told her the whole truth or indeed any of it we have no idea what his plans are yet.

I suppose your "yet" implies he a big player and will take an important part in the future developments.

Roden’s main power seems to be to control a couple of stone demons that Faith killed with her brain.

And creating a magical barrier even Giles couldn't break. Then again it could be just a plot necessity. Like I said earlier I just don't understand how much suspension of disbelief we should apply to season 8.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

I think they’re telling a story about what happens when you grow up and begin to show up on other people’s radar. As I tried to point out the show already has a precedent for what to do cases of self-defense when human opponents know what they’re up against and continue to use lethal force. However, if such attacks become systematic and the cold war turns hot that will present a new kind of problem and, as Buffy says, she doesn’t yet know what she should do.

Back in Sunnydale days demons had lesser ambitions... But I may be wrong.
Even mid-term demons like the ones in Doomed were forever trying to open the hellmouth and unleash hell on earth. Hence Buffy saving the world a lot. We’ll have to agree to differ on that one.

I suppose your "yet" implies he a big player and will take an important part in the future developments.
On the contrary I rather suspect that Roden is going to turn out to be more or less what he says he is, a bit-part player who stumbled across a book. His chest-revealing shirts haven’t yet revealed any sign of the twilight mark we saw carved on the General. Giles and Trafalgar may not be able to break through the barrier by force but Giles on his own is no Willow. I think we need to wait for the conclusion to this arc to find out why he needed Faith to on take this mission

I just don't understand how much suspension of disbelief we should apply to season 8.
No more than usual, BtVS has always traded world-building for emotional realism, genrewise I find it plays like magic realism as much as straight sf or fantasy.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

You may be right. It's just my visceral impression that show has made a considerable shift towards magic. Elves, gnomes, giants, kiss of true love... And - again, just my impression - Roden looks very powerful to me. He is a master of gargoyles. He can teleport people. His magic wand can read auras. His magic barrier is very strong.
OTOH, season 8 actively incorporates a quasi-RL element - military conspiracy. Can Joss successfully mix the unmixy? We'll see. :)

[ntshpp.livejournal.com]

Привет.

Замечательно написано!

«Season 8 introduces Roden who is a powerful wizard, has global plans and wants to dominate humanity».

А мне показалось, что это была идея Gigi, а не Родена. Да и невозможно с 2000 slayers захватить даже Великобританию, не говоря обо всём мире. Стрелять они не умеют, магией не владеют, да, они сильны, но батальон десантников (с оружием) «сильнее».
ИМХО, вся эта идея захвата мира – сплошное надувательство Роденом недалекой Gigi. Если ж они хотели просто уничтожить организацию Баффи, начинать надо было с Уиллоу.

«But - if Roden can teleport any person to any place, he rules the world by default.»

Вот это очень верно замечено. Меня еще поразило то, как быстро Уиллоу поправилась после пыток Уоррена. Джосс перебарщивает с магией. Зачем нужны все эти слейерши, если Уиллоу сильнее, чем они все вместе взятые?

И вообще – если Gigi столько времени изучала Баффи, она обязана была знать кто такая Фейт и как она выглядит!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Привет! Спасибо за комплимент. :)

По большому счету, у Родена могут быть совершенно иные планы. К примеру, подстроить так, чтобы одна из слеерш убила другую, чтобы скомпрометировать все слеерское движение. В этом случае, по крайней мерен, понятно, почему он выбрал Gigi: дочка богатых и влиятельных родителей вызовет более громкий скандал.

Но, вообще, думаю, захват мира нужно рассматривать как жанровую условность. Мы же не задавались вопросом как будет захватывать мир, скажем, Изначальный с его убервампами, которые не могут находиться на солнце.

Джосс перебарщивает с магией. Зачем нужны все эти слейерши, если Уиллоу сильнее, чем они все вместе взятые?

Хороший вопрос.

Ответ #1: Джосс дорвался до неограниченного бюджета. Давно мечтал показать и то, и это, а денег на спецэффекты не было. А теперь все можно.

Ответ №2: Джанти плохо рисует экшн. Ему не удаются стремительные движения тел. Поэтому Джосс подстраивается под художника и вместо экшн делает упор на магию.

если Gigi столько времени изучала Баффи, она обязана была знать кто такая Фейт и как она выглядит!

Очевидно, она изучала ее пост-саннидэйлский период! :)))
Опять же - suspension of disbelief, жанровая условность.

[ntshpp.livejournal.com]

«Джанти плохо рисует экшн».

Это да, но драка в бассейне вполне, ИМХО, удалась. :)

«Очевидно, она изучала ее пост-саннидэйлский период!»

Не совсем. Эти пленки очень подозрительны. Они сняты с близкого расстояния, а на некоторых она вообще позирует или смотрит в объектив. Ручаюсь, это съемки Эндрю из 7-го, вроде тех, что он делал в Storyteller.
Плюс, Баффи в строительной каске – из начала 6-го сезона, значит, Женевьев добралась до пленок Трио.

Значит, кто-то из окружения Баффи, собрал все записи, стёр из них всё лишнее (Фейт например) и продал их Женевьев. А кто на это способен лучше чем сам автор? Вывод, Эндрю - предатель.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Интересная теория, но я не уверена, что сами авторы соибраются накручивать вокруг пленок такую сложную интригу. Скорее всего, про пленки забудут. А Баффи в строительной каске... может быть, очередной ляпсус? :)

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Они там в момент, когда Баффи телепортивали, показали двух Истребительниц около дисплеев, крупным планом - может, одна из них предательницей окажется?
А Баффи в каске где-то объяснили так, что Гиги нарыла где-то видео, оцнятые Троицей в 6-м сезоне.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Да, меня эта панелька заинтересовала - ракурс такой, словно в монитор вмонтирована веб-камера. Но, скорее всего, мы ловим в темной комнате черную кошку, которой там нет... :)

[elisi]

I think Roden needs Gigi as a leader to the Slayers, to take over after Buffy (The queen is dead, long live the queen) - and since *he* controls Gigi, that way he gets himself an army of superpowered beings (like what Maggie Walsh was aiming for in S4), and can thus take over the world. Yes abducting the world's leaders could be done, but having a superior force is far better - especially one as malleable and endlessly usable as a Slayer army. It's about power. The Slayers have it. (Magic is good, but also complicated, risky and takes a lot out of the magician.)

In the first seven seasons, human world and magic world existed in parallel without attempts to conquer each other.
Can I point out that roughly once every year, that was *exactly* what would happen? Beginning with 'The Harvest'...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I think Roden needs Gigi as a leader to the Slayers, to take over after Buffy (The queen is dead, long live the queen) - and since *he* controls Gigi, that way he gets himself an army of superpowered beings (like what Maggie Walsh was aiming for in S4), and can thus take over the world. Yes abducting the world's leaders could be done, but having a superior force is far better - especially one as malleable and endlessly usable as a Slayer army.

Obviously Roden has never taught in school or worked with teenagers if he thinks he can control them! :)

But, seriously, he hardly controls Gigi - he had to create a whole system of lies to make her want to kill Buffy.

Can I point out that roughly once every year, that was *exactly* what would happen? Beginning with 'The Harvest'...

I think it was more about destroying the world, not ruling it.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

I think it was more about destroying the world, not ruling it.
Master, Mayor, Adam and the First were about ruling the world, not destroying it.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Agree. Obviously I haven't found the rights words to explain. I wasn't talking about token Big Bads. I was talking about practicing magicians. We don't know how strong Ethan Rayne was, but he mostly annoyed Giles. Rack was a magician and a very strong one but he wasn't interested in conquering the world. I suppose Coven people are very strong too.

Do you remember that little moment in Smashed when Willow says to Amy "I just keep thinking there's gotta be someplace, like, bigger than this." Tо me, it was the scene when the show - for a moment! - balanced on the verge of shifting its paradigm (I apologize for sounding like an arty-farty snob, but I can't find more appropriate words). But either due to budget issues or because Joss wasn't interested in such type of story, magiс became bad, period.

And today magic is in vogue again.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Great review, but as I'm a bit late to the party and everyone has already commented on everything, I'll just add this: ;-)

I was talking about practicing magicians. We don't know how strong Ethan Rayne was, but he mostly annoyed Giles. Rack was a magician and a very strong one but he wasn't interested in conquering the world.

But magicians/wizards/witches/warlocks are humans too, with different wants and needs. (By the same token, the fact that Adam (a robot) tried to control the world would mean that the Buffybot (also a robot) should be trying to do the same thing.) Most of the practicing magicians we see in the Buffyverse are not very powerful (for obvious reasons; it complicates the story if there's a character who can do absolutely anything) and wouldn't be able to conquer the world. Others (Rack, for instance - and judging from the lame magic he sold Warren, his powers lay more in inducing highs than actually hurting people) seemed perfectly content to just exploit the people around him, which is so much easier and comfier than trying to rule the world. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is something in magic that makes every user want to NOT conquer the world.

Also, it could be argued that W&H and the Black Thorn were ruling the world. By, among other tools, magic.

LORNE: Hmm, well, this is interesting. Apparently old Joe Kennedy tried to get out of his deal with the firm.
ANGEL: That explains a lot.
LORNE: Yeah, but George Sr, he read the fine print.

magiс became bad, period.

Did it? Tara was never bad - nobody had any trouble with her using magic in s6. The (never actually seen) coven in England were obviously a force for good. For the most part, Willow was too - at least pre-s6, and certainly by the end of s7. Giles and Wesley frequently used magic for more-or-less good purposes. I never saw the show stating outright that "all magic is bad" (well, OK, Connor said it a few times but that's Connor for ya *g*) - magic is powerful and shouldn't be used indiscriminately (as Willow was doing in s6) and there are definitely good and bad ways to use it, but like any sort of power, it's not good or bad in and of itself. Just like the fact that Faith used her powers to murder people doesn't mean Slayer powers are bad.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

In fact, thinking a little more about it, something similar could be said about the entire season arc (or what we've seen of it so far); with her new army, Buffy could theoretically make a realistic bid at conquering the world. Voll, therefore, assumes that she will and decides that she must be stopped. But the power to do something does not necessarily equal the will to do something (and vice versa); does Buffy want to rule the world? Judging from some of the hinted-at discontent in the Slayer ranks, I wouldn't be surprised if that came up again - especially in light of Buffy's rather surprising moral relaxation, which sounds a lot like Faith in s3 and Willow in s6 (both of whom, it seems, are now trying to hold her back from that).

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

But the power to do something does not necessarily equal the will to do something (and vice versa); does Buffy want to rule the world?

She may not want it. But her mysterious sponsors could have their own plans.

Actually, the mention of somebody who may manipulate Buffy - the way Roden manipulates Gigi - get me elated and confused at the same time. Elated, because it's a very realistic approach to the situation. Of course, in RL powerful organizations would get interested in a new powerful player and most probably would try to buy him. Confused, because I started to get used to a fairy-tale with elves, gnomes and giants, and I'm a bit baffled by sudden realistic detail - that could be crucial for future story.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Others (Rack, for instance - and judging from the lame magic he sold Warren, his powers lay more in inducing highs than actually hurting people) seemed perfectly content to just exploit the people around him, which is so much easier and comfier than trying to rule the world. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is something in magic that makes every user want to NOT conquer the world.

Well, if we look at the situation realistically, magic, like paranormal abilities gives certain people advantages over other people. And these advantages give them power over regular humans. In a real world such people would be either working under close government/military surveillance or simply exterminated.

As long as the story with magic elements plays like fairy tale it works OK within genre conventions. But as soon as a writer mixes wizardry and miliraty conspiracy, it becomes tricky. I'm very curious to see how Joss will pull it off.

Tara was never bad - nobody had any trouble with her using magic in s6. The (never actually seen) coven in England were obviously a force for good. For the most part, Willow was too - at least pre-s6, and certainly by the end of s7. Giles and Wesley frequently used magic for more-or-less good purposes. I never saw the show stating outright that "all magic is bad"

I always found it a bit funny that magic was good in Tara's case, but bad in Willow's case. Although, theoretically one can draw a parallel with regular people who drink occasionally and know when to stop and alcoholics who can't control themselves.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

On the surface we have Faith as the ultimate loner, who's cut off the other slayers and their sisterhood. She's losing herself, losing the battle, losing the meaning of life. But if we look at the situation more closely, it's Buffy who's losing it.
Yes, that's how it comes across. Faith is more morally right here than our traditional good guys, and she, for the first time in her story, has a chance to make a stand *against* the "good guys" and show them the way, rather than follow good guys because she doesn't trust her own judgement.

Also I agree - the more they torture them, the more we love them. And it's very obvious whom BKV loves here. Seriously, it's the most compelling Faith I've seen so far, except maybe on Angel-4.

Gigi being raped - no, don't think so. That one would leave a mark. And with her upbringing she would be disgusted to no end with one of the "commoners" even touching her. I rather imagine teachers getting fired one after another after Gigi's enraged fits to her parents. And maybe a lot of that was in her imagination, too.

Roden: we know too little of him and his goals to draw any conclusions yet. And his powers could be limited to only summoning Buffy to the place where Gigi is, or, as was mentioned, maybe the magic he aimes for only works when a slayer kills the slayer who's the source of all other slayers powers. Or some such. With Joss & Co is better not to dig for technical details - he concentrates on characters impact from his world than on the world itself.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I basically agree with you on every point (you know, it's not fun when you have nothing to argue about :)

As to Roden - so far we've been conditioned to see him as a very ambiguous character. He's a magician. He has Twilight "guidebook". He wants to make Gigi believe that she'll become "the queen of slayers".

He may be manipulating Gigi. He may be manipulating Twilight. He may be manipulating both.

I just wonder if all those dangling plot threads will ever be resolved. Because fans are still wondering who had sent robo-ninjas after Angel. :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Because fans are still wondering who had sent robo-ninjas after Angel. :)

The #11 cover seems to hint that that thread will be resolved now, or at least touched upon. Assuming that's not some other random villain brought back to life (betcha thought Balthazar was dead!), I don't see what else it could be...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

If skinning alive can't kill a villain, electrocution is like tickling to them... :)

[caurielle.livejournal.com]

I haven't read anyone who has suggested that Gigi will not die. Gigi is very vulnerable right now and may be persuaded to take a look on the other side of Roden. Perhaps she has not seen another side to which she has not yet been exposed. If Roden is her only tutor, she may be intrigued by the notion that he has been misleading her. Perhaps she can be a fount of information to the Slayer organization.
Of course if that happens, she might also be used to infiltrate the Slayer Castle for Twilight's dusky purposes.
BTW, isn't the name "Dawn" also another term for "Twilight?"

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure Gigi will die: such ending of the Faith arc would be too grim and devoid of hope. I'd rather see her alive and unrepentant - but starting to grow up. As to Faith... I'd love to see her spinoff. With guest spots on Angel: After the Fall.

I believe that twilight is more or less opposite of dawn. Twilight happens at sunset, dawn - at sunrise. I wonder if these opposing names could play some role in the story. After all, Dawn's still a key. I read post-Chosen fanfics in whish she uses her "keyness" to open portals and save the day.

[lilred26x.livejournal.com]

I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on the comics. It really increases my enjoyment of them. Thanks for another entertaining and thought provoking review!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Thanks - I'm glad you like my review. We all see the events of Buffyverse a bit differently, and it's great fun to compare our impressions.