Angel #12 and BtVS #18 reviews
Sep. 8th, 2008 02:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
moscow_watcherIt's a rare occasion when you can read a new Angel comic and a new Buffy comic back-to-back, within an hour interval. It's even a rarer occasions when two comics happen to use so many common techniques - including the "somebody is riding somebody but it's not what you think, perverts" joke. It's even more rare occasion everything that was done right in one comic goes wrong in the other.
On AtF we have a small breach in the fourth wall - a street sign "Doyle" next to the poster "coming soon" - and it's a great hook-up. On "Buffy" there is a lot of breaches in the fourth wall,- "spoiler alert", "legend blender" - but they're pointless unless writer intended to flavor the mish-mash of cultural references with irony to make it more palatable.
On AtF writer and artist showcase Cordelia in a sexy outfit and shoes on high heels and it works because she's a ghost. Immaterial creatures can't join the fight so their outfits don't have to be practical. While on BtVS Buffy looks plain stupid in a decollete mini-dress and kinky boots during a vamp-slaying mission.
On "Buffy" comic the joke "Xander rides Dawn" drags on from the previous issue. Currently Dawn has been "ridden hard and put away wet". Ha. Ha. Look how mortified Xander is! Ha. Ha. I may be wrong but I have the impression that centaur!Dawn had been created only for this purpose. And the demolition of the castle was also servicing this joke. Neither Xander nor Dawn are shaken by what happened. After all, nobody significant died; castles are a dime a dozen in current Buffyverse; and it took characters only a second to figure out the evildoers: "Bomb. Plus magic. Equals... Warren and Amy" - so no intrigue there. (ETA: I wrote this paragraph yesterday and today I read
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girlpire's report where she mentions that Scott [Allie] said he thinks the whole reason Dawn's a centaur now is because Joss wanted to use the Dawn/Xander "ride me" joke. Heh. There is something me and Scott Allie can agree. :)The problem with "riding" joke isn't its vulgarity. Problem is, it's post-punch-line. Faith's line in Salvage: "Like riding a biker" - is vulgar. But it's also incredibly funny thanks to perfect timing and ED's brilliantly casual delivery. While on Buffy #18 we don't have the luxury or actors' delivery and the timing is bad: it's a modification of the joke from the previous issue, the audience is already past it. What was moderately funny the first time is plain awkward the second time. I wonder if the next issue will feature a post-post-punch-line denouement in which Dawn will report the "riding experience" to Buffy or somebody else.
On Angel_AtF basically the same idea works as a sucker punch because of inventive build-up and good timing. The very first issue established that Angel's best friend is the dragon who, according to Angel, "was as misled as I was". In issue 2 we find out that Angel doesn't want other people to know dragon's name. Yet he whispers it to Connor and gets curious reaction: "That's what you went with? I'm serious, Angel. Weirder and weirder." Audience is intrigued but writer keeps us guessing until current issue; during a crucial moment, when Angel is on the verge of death, Connor addresses the evil party "don't make me give Cordelia the okay to bat you." - "Cordelia? Who's - " We turn the page and see the dragon.
And it's just the beginning. The discovery that dragon's name is Cordy is just the first emotional punch - the exhilarating one. The second, heartbreaking one, follows immediately on the next page and is even more powerful: a ghost of dying Angel separated from his body, meets the ghost of Cordelia. He explains to her that he imagined her alive and talked to her; that's why dragon, his only partner, decided that Angel has named him Cordelia.
Only two comics made me cry - "Chain" and this issue of AtF. The scenes where ghost!Cordy explains to ghost!Angel that she's "here to make his passing easier" is tearjerker par excellence. Angel and Cordy are already detached from their mortal coil; they both look at dying Angel with sympathy but without fussing about his imminent death. While on our plane dying Angel and fierce dragon named Cordelia still try to make things right. And, hopefully, they'll succeed.
And the best thing? It is never mentioned that Angel has been riding "Cordelia" for 11 issues and we've found out about it only now. It's up to fans' imagination. Although it's obvious that the scenes with dragon will never be same again.
I talk at length about these examples because they highlight the difference between BtVS and AtF. On AtF it's about characters. On BtVS it's about plot and jokes. For example, what are we supposed to think about Buffy's decision to use humans as a bait for "lurks" and let vampires kill them? Buffy's logic sounds utterly idiotic: instead of catching one of Harth's minions and beating the information about Harth's whereabouts out of him Buffy suggests to let vampires kill humans and then to follow their flying car hoping they won't notice her - which will be very hard, given Buffy's driving skills.
Either it's a clue that Buffy went evil or that the madwoman in question is actually her... or it's a case of lazy writing, putting plot necessities above character development and common sense. Writer needs to separate Fray and Buffy, because otherwise evil!Willow won't be able to influence Fray. Unable to come up with a plausible twist he uses the first idea that comes to his mind.
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind plot necessities being put ahead of character development in non-crucial plot twists. I can accept Fray's letting Buffy drive since her bizarre idea is just a set-up for a "Summers, you drive like a spaz" joke. But Buffy who can easily sacrifice humans? Everything in me protests against it, whether it's a crucial plot point or just a fleeting plot necessity that will never be mentioned again.
But is it crucial plot point or a fleeting plot necessity? Hard to say. We can't judge characters' actions because their motivations are too obscure. Turns out Fray hates Buffy. Weird. I didn't feel the hate vibe between them. But evil!Willow says it aloud and Fray doesn't argue. Or maybe Willow is hypnotyzing Fray. Or maybe a considerable amount of time has passed between Buffy's arrival and current events and we'll find out about it in the next issue. Or maybe... Wait, what is evil!Willow's plan? To destroy Buffy? Or to neutralize her and send back in time? Or to delete her memories of the future to avoid time paradox?
The latter option isn't as unprobable as it may look. Saga Vasuki's warning "do not look" shows that Willow's mentor regards time paradoxes seriously. And looks like Saga Wasuki knows much more than she reveals. Is "someone she trusted" future!Willow? And is Saga Wasuki a trustworthy source or she has evil plans of her own?
Or maybe the scene with Saga Wasuki serves another necessity - to showcase Nekkid!Willow? If so, we aren't supposed to pay much attention to vague plot clues, focusing instead on not-so-vague flirting vibes. Color me confused, I can't figure out writer's intentions.
While on AtF the plot is also twisted and also includes time-travel (a small but intriguing trip) and it's unclear who's behind the whole conspiracy. But we always know where characters are emotionally. And it's fascinating - to watch Gunn, a good-guy-turned-bad, who tries to be good on his own terms. To find inspiration in Cordelia who stayed true to herself. To ache for Wesley who, as helpless as he is, tries to help. And to watch, ache for and find inspiration in Angel who goes through hell and doesn't give up.
What's in store for Angel? Humanity and normal life? Writer toys with the idea as he inserts a panel in which Illyria time-jumps into a Hyperion room that features both Nina and a crib. OTOH, it's pretty possible that Illyria jumped into season 3 post-Lullaby timeline and Nina was just a hitchhiker. Anyway, the story demands Heroic!Angel and I suppose he's on the verge of another radical transformation (weird patterns on his skin may be the indication of something important being in progress).
So, am I too harsh on Buffy issue 18 and too rhapsodical on Angel issue 12? To be fair, there are things I like in "Buffy". I'm awed by Moline's art; his centaur!Dawn is very cute, his Xander is kickass and his Willow is incredibly sexy. He's good at facial expressions as well as naked women's bodies. He creates convincing canvas of future Manhattan. While on AtF, Stephen Mooney's best panels are those of processed screenshots (although they do have flair and feel of the show). And since when Gwen, instead of roasting the objects she touches, just throws them far, far away? Then again, I can fanwank that she has started learning to control her powers.
Next issues of BtVS and AtF should bring big revelations. Is Buffy the Big Bad of season 8? Is Angel still the favorite of Powers That Be? Is Erin Fray Buffy's descendant as
stormwreath suggests? Current issue definitely showcases their likeness by identical hair, identical career inclinations and identical predicaments with their younger sisters. :)Hopefully everything will make sense in a few years when I'll be able to read season 8 in its entirety.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 11:24 am (UTC)For example, what are we supposed to think about Buffy's decision to use humans as a bait for "lurks" and let vampires kill them?
Say what? The comics leave me so confused...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 11:37 am (UTC)Thanks!
The comics leave me so confused...
That makes two of us. I don't know what to think of Buffy. :(
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Date: 2008-09-08 11:48 am (UTC)And I don't believe for one minute that Erin is Buffy's direct descendant. Her appearance had already been established in the Fray comic, so it couldn't be deviated from.
And poor Dawn! When I read
Hopefully, he was joking.
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Date: 2008-09-08 12:09 pm (UTC)The most annoying thing to me is that I can't figure out if it's a throwaway moment or an Important Message.
When I read girlpire's Dragoncon report and saw what Jeanty says is coming up for her, my jaw dropped.
Hopefully, he was joking.
Hopefully... but I don't count on it, frankly. :(
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 03:21 pm (UTC)*sigh* I think there's a reason I don't care for the BtVS comics very much. I should just stick with the AtS ones.
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Date: 2008-09-08 12:10 pm (UTC)And until then, I have your intelligent and insightful meme's to read. Thank you!
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Date: 2008-09-08 12:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 12:46 pm (UTC)My first impression was that this was one of the unpleasant effects of General Buffy from season 7. I never thought she escaped that apocalypse unscathed.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 03:35 pm (UTC)You may be right. Still, this is so bizarre, and un- Buffy-like...
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Date: 2008-09-08 01:55 pm (UTC)For me...I RECOGNIZE the characters in the Angel and Spike series. The character growth continues and I can see their actions as completely in character.
Whereas.....
Buffy has no relationship with the characters I watched grow for 7 years. Buffy robs banks, sacrifices humans, turns on Giles even though she has always forgiven him for far worse than keeping her out of the loop before, uses someone who loves her for a happy...I could go on and on about how Buffy is nothing like the woman we last saw and I won't even go into Willow and the rest! Lots are played for the giggles and the show was not a comedy. SIGH...
Great review as always.
Kathleen
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Date: 2008-09-08 03:45 pm (UTC)That would explain why neither Spike nor Angel could smell a changeling in TGIQ. :)
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Date: 2008-09-08 02:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 04:00 pm (UTC)Objectively I understand that it's OK for Joss to explore the issues of power and its corruption on his characters. But subjectively it hurts. Fans tend to be overprotective of their beloved heroes, and I think I'm no exception. When it comes to Buffy and Spike, I can't be objective. :)
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Date: 2008-09-08 03:09 pm (UTC)I'll agree that the writing is much stronger in Angel atf, where they actually don't sacrifice character for plot, and where everything they include seems to be driving the story towards its destination.
Doesn't mean I'll stop reading Buffy though. There's enough banter and such to keep me interested. Also hoping Faith and Giles come back into the loop sometime in the future.
Great review!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 04:14 pm (UTC)I also hope to have Faith and Giles back. Or, even better, getting their own mini-serial, not unlike the one Spike has got on IDW. :)
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Date: 2008-09-08 03:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 04:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 04:06 pm (UTC)We're supposed to do exactly that. Think about it. While Angel:AtF is giving us a few amusing surprises (Angel called the dragon 'Cordelia'! Tee hee!) it's mostly more of the same familiar characters going through the same familiar routines.
Season 8 is actually challenging us. How did Buffy get to this point? I've talked about this at great length in my own review so I won't repeat it here. Just say that it's a surprising but still completely logical character development. and one that makes me both worried about her, and concerned as to what happens next; does she even realise what she's turning into?
The plot is exciting enough, but it's secondary to the evolution and change in the characters we're watching unfold in front of us. And you call this lazy writing?
Sorry about the rant. 'Lazy writing' is a hot-button phrase for me these days. Still liked reading your review...
Turns out Fray hates Buffy. Weird. I didn't feel the hate vibe between them.
Well, it wasn't there before. Fray has just watched Buffy refuse to help the victims of a vampire attack. She's shocked, horrified, and furious with Buffy - you know, just like the reader is. :-)
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Date: 2008-09-08 04:42 pm (UTC)Hopefully you're right. Hopefully this shocking decision wasn't just a plot necessity to separate Buffy and Fray. But I'm not sure we're supposed to see it that way.
You know, Russian TV currently airs BtVS and there are new fans who never watched the show until now. Recently I witnessed a very heated debates on a Russian forum about Buffy's decision to trade the box of Gavroc for Willow in Choices - a decision that later killed Larry, Harmony and many others. Now, the majority of people who visit this forum don't know English; they watch a translated TV version and are completely unspoiled. And they theorized about how this decision will scar Buffy and strain Willow's relationship with other Scoobies. They couldn't believe the issue will never be mentioned again.
So I wonder if we're in the same situation with Time Of Your Life :)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 05:15 pm (UTC)The Buffy comic also has Dawn use the riding joke and, as
While on AtF the plot is also twisted and also includes time-travel (a small but intriguing trip) and it's unclear who's behind the whole conspiracy. But we always know where characters are emotionally.
We know where the characters are emotionally because they spend issue after issue explaining themselves to one another (or in Angel’s case to himself) in the simplest possible terms. I swear it’s more like reading a Cliff’s notes than a comic.
For example, what are we supposed to think about Buffy's decision to use humans as a bait for "lurks" and let vampires kill them? Buffy's logic sounds utterly idiotic
Buffy’s non-reaction to the sound of cries for help is indicative of how detached she’s had to become but the seeds of this were present already in the first issue of the series when her only thought for the green demons victims was how to get Satsu and Co through the experience. Her logic on the other hand is perfectly sound.
instead of catching one of Harth's minions and beating the information about Harth's whereabouts out of him
Fray did that in the previous issue and the vamp wouldn't answer her question. Buffy did that in the previous arc and was led into a trap. Faith did it in S7 and ditto. Torture in the Buffyverse, as in real life, just doesn't seem to be a good source of reliable information.
Buffy suggests to let vampires kill humans and then to follow their flying car hoping they won't notice her - which will be very hard, given Buffy's driving skills.
All Buffy does is say no to Melaka’s “let’s go – kill vamps in a Faith-like frenzy” and point out that the big picture important thing they need to do to stop these killings at root it to find Harth’s base. She never gets to articulate an actual plan (such as Buffy Slays and Melaka shadows) before Melaka jumps out of the car.
Melaka compares her to a govver not a Slayer – Buffy clearly doesn’t know her place in the scheme of things. Still, I think that comparison brings up a potentially interesting thematic reason for having Buffy meet Fray. Fray from the beginning has seen herself as part of her world. Not just friends and family, her very first act as a Slayer (once she knew what she was) was to lead her people, her entire community, against the threat from Harth. She never got the memo about Slayer secret identity and she never had the Sunnydale experience of seeing most of the people who weren’t her friends and family either not wanting to know about demons or actively working for them. Buffy is a governor now and that’s not necessarily a bad thing but Fray is a community organizer, which Buffy has never been and maybe needs to learn she can be.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 06:00 pm (UTC)I think it's a case of "respectfully agree to disagree". :)
Fray did that in the previous issue and the vamp wouldn't answer her question. Buffy did that in the previous arc and was led into a trap. Faith did it in S7 and ditto. Torture in the Buffyverse, as in real life, just doesn't seem to be a good source of reliable information.
I'm not a specialist in Frayspeak, but I've got the impression that Harth's minion was ready to talk when Fray dusted him. And in previous arc it was obvious to Buffy and her team that vampires will set up a trap - as well as they do in current one.
But, in general, good reasoning in Buffy's favor. Again, I wonder if we're supposed to side with her when she decides to leave people die. And I say it seriously, without irony.
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Date: 2008-09-08 05:21 pm (UTC)I know I mentioned it on someone else's review, about the reference to Doyle, and also wondered why Cordy was 'season 1' Cordy and if that had anything to do with the Doyle reference?
You know, I'd never even thought about Angel 'riding' Cordelia until you mentioned it! :P Bad lady :)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-08 06:55 pm (UTC)I think Cordy is supposed to look like she looked like in You're Welcome - i.e. with long hair. But artist couldn't find enough screencaps of her close-ups in a single episode, so he had to look for them in other episodes where she had long hair - s1 and beginning of s2 up to 2.07.
You know, I'd never even thought about Angel 'riding' Cordelia until you mentioned it! :P Bad lady :)
*iz embarrassed* :))))
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Date: 2008-09-08 10:53 pm (UTC)While it seems very weird that she wouldn't even consider a method that worked for her just days earlier (in the Japan arc), I can actually see two reasons why she wouldn't do that:
1) In Tokyo, the information led them straight into a trap.
2) In Tokyo, Slayers were at risk. Here, it's just humans, and alternate-future-humans to boot. What was that Voll said about a master race...?
But yes, a Buffy Summers who is OK with letting innocent bystanders get killed is a very strange creature indeed. And no, I don't see it as building on anything she did in s7 either; rather as the complete antithesis of the "Chosen" spell.
Couldn't agree more about the riding joke, either. Then again, repitition of the same joke over and over again pretty much sums up s8!Dawn so far, so I'm not surprised.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-09 09:04 am (UTC)My impression is that the trap was there in the first place. Not that Raidon has sent his vampire to lure Buffy in a trap. She could let him kill somebody and them follow him to Raidon's headquarters - the result would be the same.
Similarly, Harth is preparing a trap right now. Whether Buffy beats the information out of one of his vampires or follows their flying car, she'd end up in a trap.
2) In Tokyo, Slayers were at risk. Here, it's just humans, and alternate-future-humans to boot. What was that Voll said about a master race...?
Now, it's downright creepy. Of course, Buffy belongs to Joss and he does what he thinks is appropriate. But I'm not sure he does the right thing. IMHO, exploration of power and its soul-corrupting essense better suits AtS. While the strongest element of BtVS was it's humanity.
Or maybe, like I already said upthread, I'm just myopic when it comes to Buffy. *shrugs*
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Date: 2008-09-09 06:37 pm (UTC)I adore AtS:AtF. Each of the last two issues have left me broken-hearted and wondering what's next.
I <3 these comics.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the Buffy comics.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-09 08:17 pm (UTC)I agree, the last two issues of AtF are truly outstanding. One part of me wants to know the ending, the other part dreams that it never ends.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-10 03:38 am (UTC)Hopefully everything will make sense in a few years when I'll be able to read season 8 in its entirety.
And that's the hell of it. We don't know what happened in that missing year and a half, and we don't know where the heck the characters are going, since logic doesn't seem to be playing a real strong role in their actions.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-10 09:28 pm (UTC)I still hope hope that everything will make sense in the end of the season, character-wise, but every issue I hope less and less. Buffy the bank robber? Buffy who doesn't care about humans? Nope. Not her. I seriously consider the possibility that she had been split into bimbo!Buffy (in Rome) and general!Buffy (in comics). I even wanted to write a fic about Angel and Spike dealing with them: Spike deals with Roman!Buffy and Angel - with general!Buffy. And then they meet and realise there are two Buffies. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-12 05:14 pm (UTC)I'm way, way beyond caring enough about s8 to actually waste time writing about it, so I am desperately happy that you took all my thoughts and wrote them for me! :)
(The development of s8 Buffy makes as much sense to me as Sarah Palin being chosen as VP. But then clearly some people just see the world *completely* differently to me...)
Anyway, love, love, love your thoughts on Cordelia & Angel (and the 'riding Cordelia' joke didn't occur to me until reading this. I like it when writers use subtlety... even if it means that I look dumb.) - although I'm confused by your timetravel talk. (The crib is a mistake on the artist's part, IMHO.)
Bother, must run, but you are awesome! :)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-12 07:03 pm (UTC)*blushes* Thanks!
riding Cordelia' joke didn't occur to me until reading this.
That's because I have dirty, perversive mind! :))))
I'm confused by your timetravel talk.
I think it's like this. On the upper panel it's "now": Fred's transformation starts, Nina just witnesses it. The next panel may be the future: the library tuirned into a screening room, Nina's hair is different color. The next one is the mysterious panel with a crib, manuscripts from the first panel and Nina in different clothes and with brighter hair. And the bottom panel is "now" again.
(The crib is a mistake on the artist's part, IMHO.)
You may be right. I wish we could see Lynch' script.
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Date: 2008-09-15 06:28 pm (UTC)Any favourites as to who's the one pulling the strings in AOTF?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-15 06:39 pm (UTC)Any favourites as to who's the one pulling the strings in AOTF?
You know, I have a very odd idea that Powers That Be and Senior Partners are the same organization. SP is a legalese for PTB. PTB is a theological coinage of SP.
Or maybe they are different affiliations of the same Heaven&Hell Inc.
(no subject)
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Date: 2008-09-15 09:44 pm (UTC)I go on a tangent here, but I think that Joss loves old western The Wild Bunch, because he named brothers Gorch (Bad Eggs) after the characters of this movie. The Wild Bunch starts with a scene of children playing a cruel game: they put a scorpio in the anthill. Scorpio is fighting for his life but there are too many ants and they overpower the scorpio. Children laugh. The film ends with a scene in which several master gunslingers - "human scorpios" - are overpowered by an army of soldiers. These soldiers are like ants. The parallel is obvious.
I think Joss has similar views on PTB as children who play cruel games and laugh at the results.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-16 02:17 am (UTC)Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I saw the artwork you dod for iwry_marathon, and it's lovely. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-16 11:46 am (UTC)Do you plan to write for iwry_marathon? I'm looking forward to reading your stuff. My fic for iwry is already written, but it's a rough draft and I'm going to work on it more later (I'm currently writing my seasonal_spuffy fic and my posting date is impending mercilessly :-)
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From:Angel Art
Date: 2008-09-30 10:42 am (UTC)Sorry if this sounds like griping on my part, I just would like people to realise that having to work on a book like Angel where the fans demand for the most part that the drawings resemble the actors as much as possible adds work rather than creates shortcuts for the artist.
Oh, and Gwen has indeed learned to control her powers to a much greater extent! That's what we were shooting for. Thanks a million for reading, the support is truly appreciated!
Re: Angel Art
Date: 2008-09-30 10:43 am (UTC)Re: Angel Art
From:Re: Angel Art
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2008-09-30 02:09 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-03 01:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-11-24 04:39 pm (UTC)i find comics kinda hard to follow and short its just not the same as watching it on tv, duh. although there are some perks to the comics im sure.
However the buffy comics totally confused me after the first few issues, so i stopped reading them and i havent even tried the Angel ones yet. i just needed to see how the story continued and from the sound of the reviews ive been reading, all sounds very complicated and weird. i heard somthing about a giant fish!? Sounds as if everyone is slowly decending into darkness. what is that they say - die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villan.
im going to wait till they put them all together and read them then, i hope things dont get too bad and the comics can do a cross over, but thats unlikely.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-11-24 06:52 pm (UTC)I'm a lazy, lazy person... But I'll try to include short recaps in the future reviews.
i just needed to see how the story continued and from the sound of the reviews ive been reading, all sounds very complicated and weird.
Yes - current Buffy time-travel arc is very complex and I'm not sure I understand correctly Joss' intentions.
i heard somthing about a giant fish!?
Yes! A telepathic giant fish! It sounds crazy, but it's a funny character! :)
Sounds as if everyone is slowly descending into darkness.
Yes, it definitely looks this way.
im going to wait till they put them all together and read them then,
You may have the healthiest approach to comics! Right now I meet fans online, who watched seven seasons of BtVS on DVD without gnashing their teeth as they waited the next episode to air - and I envy them! But, OTOH, watching together with the whole world was an incredible experience (I only watched season 7 this way - I read spoilers, then read different recaps, at the same time downloading an episode in awful quality... Those were the times! :)