Buffy #17 and Spike After the Fall #2 (kinda) reviews

[moscow_watcher]

Buffy #17

... in which Buffy and Fray recognize each other as slayers; Fray's brother' Garth, conspires with Evil!Willow to do something evil; and Xander rides Dawn.

Honestly, I couldn't figure out so many visuals in this issue it was embarrassing. The first panels open with Fray and her sister Erin ambushing vamps' flying van in the vicinity of a gigantic statue surrounded by force field reflecting bullets and firing laser beams. First, I was sure that Erin was Buffy - they look like twin sisters. Second, I didn't figure out that the gigantic old man who raises his hand like he makes a spell is actually a statue. I thought it was somebody (something) similar to "elemental creatures" who helped Willow in issue 4.

Then I read other reviews and asked questions and people explained me and when I read the issue for the third time, I was able to follow the plot. And after reading in stormwreath's review "It took me a while to figure out that image" - I felt a little better. He's one of the cleverest people in the fandom, and it took him a while to figure it out!

And now I wonder why Joss decided to make such a strange experiment and plunge readers who aren't acquainted with Fray story into a completely different universe. Was it an intentional shock, one more declaration that this is not the show we used to watch on TV - or Joss has just miscalculated the level of disorientation?

The comparison to Chain is inevitable but superficial. In Chain we had all new characters and a pretty simple storyline told in a non-chronological order. Here we have a girl with Buffy face - who turns out to be Fray's sister; we have a girl with Drusilla's characteristics - who turns out to be Willow; and we have a complex plot full of riddles, vague hints and blatant misleads.

Talking about riddles.

-- Erin looks like Buffy's twin sister. A hack work or a set-up for a future plot twist?

-- All sources describe evil!Willow as "madwoman". A mislead (to make the audience think of Dru) or a future important plot point?

-- "Gates. The last great watcher. Sacrificed himself at the battle of Starbucks." Gates = Giles?

-- "What happens in your time will cause your time to come" (Evil!Willow). Is she another Willow, from a previous timeline? Or she's got trapped in a time-loop and is forced to repeat the same ritual ad aeternam? And how could she know what will happen if she's not a time-traveller? I remember only one instance of an event being chronicled before it happened and, curiously, that moment is closely connected to Willow and events of season 8: Willow "zips up" Warren's mouth and skins him on the last minute of Villains, but the depiction of her tortures appear on Lloyd's wall at least 10 minutes earlier (29-th minute of the episode).

OTOH, maybe "your time" just means "vampire kingdom on Earth". And, since we know from spoilers, that in the next arc "Buffy's world goes public" and "vampires become common knowledge", maybe evil!Willow's actions are destined to trigger these events by doing something to Buffy before she sends her back. Or maybe she sends her into the animated universe of issue 20.

But I'm nurturing a theory that Willow (from a previous timeline) somehow found out in advance about Giles' untimely death and developed a complex plan to prevent it. Don't ask me how. Joss' stories are always full of gigantic plot holes and so far the only way to predict the plot developments was to look at it from the emotional standpoint. And emotionally I can't see Willow turning to dark side permanently. First of all - been there, done that, bored now. Second, it just don't feel right. But maybe this new season has new rules regarding the characters.

Last, but not least: these two days I'm reading a discussion about season 8 and if it feels like season 1. A year ago when I read the first issues I used to think that season 8 feels like season 1. Now I think it feels like season 1... of another show. Kinda Alias-cum-Dr.Who-cum-good old BtVS.

I hope that people who dismiss critical approach to season 8 as "whining and bitching" won't get me wrong. Yes, it does feel as a reboot to me. Yes, maybe it's the only way BtVS could survive in another medium. And I like reading it, but the passion is gone. I'm a Spike fan and maybe his absence is one of the reasons of my tepid attitude to season 8.

So, Spike: After the Fall, issue 2

... in which our boy meets the dragon, gets touched by a mysterious glowing man in a cocoon and fights an evil pixie who sucks life force out of her victims.

I enjoyed it. It's a transitional issue of a transitional arc, but dialogs are stellar and Spike's voice is spot-on.

"Sorry, Puff". Does it mean that dragon's actual name is Puff? And the person who named him was Spike? If that's the case, no wonder Angel was so embarrassed to tell dragon's name to Connor!

Spike's strategizing about slaying the dragon is hysterical ("Plug up nostrils. Tries to blow smoke. Head explodes. Effective and entertaining") as is Spike's "Penthouse letter" in the middle of his fight with furious Amazons.

Evil pixie is fun and her minion who is preoccupied with regulating everything, including humor, are priceless.

As usual, Urru excels at drawing movements, especially fights. Pity we don't get a big damn panel of Spike riding the dragon. I hope this is not their last encounter. Spike riding Puff - that would be quite a sight! :)

But, instead we get another scene with hysterically funny sexual subtext: when Spike meets Spider, she bristles up with eight spider legs and he, in response, aims his knife at her. Talk about the battle of sexes.

The only panel that got me confused was the one with a glowing man in a cocoon. My first thought was that it was a fiery portal to hell. Then, after reading other peoples' reviews, I realized that I was wrong and the glowing entity is a man, probably Angel, slowly convalescing after the battle. Upon second reading I appreciated fully the powerful metaphor of Angel's moral suffering after he inadvertently sent LA to hell. Later in the issue Spike endures similar moral torture when evil pixie harms people he protects.

We leave our boy battered, bloodied, chained and desperate. We already know that he "stepped up" and evil pixie's minions "began following" him (Angel: AtF, issue 4). Still, even if the outcome is already known, it's interesting to find out how Spike managed to become their leader. He has always been good with women and to women. Even when he was unsouled. Funnily, characters' attitude to Spike reflects fandom's attitude. They either love to torture him or revel in nurturing and loving him. Looks like the next issue will be thrilling.

Interestingly, at one point evil pixie repeats Buffy's phrase in Potential: "You're all gonna die". In the next issue we'll see if she adopted other Buffyisms. ;-)

Comments

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

We learn that some hundred years ago (Fray POV) one great slayer (probably Buffy) together with her allies faced an enormous apocalypse and won. The result was that all demons - and all magic - was banished from our dimension. What with Buffy happened, we don't know yet.

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if it means that the battle in Chosen wasn't *the* apocalypse (because in season 8 demons still exist). Or it means that Frayverse exists in an alternate dimension.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

You've got me blushing now.

But it seems that I actually misinterpreted that image wrongly after all; the statue is Alan Moore, not Jesus. And it's debateable whether it's a beam being fired from the statue, or the van simply hitting the forcefield and fire spreading out across its surface.


As for the story, Joss's technique is actually reminding me a bit of my first term at university. School had been pretty easy, I'd coasted along getting good marks, but then I found myself in a tutorial with someone who was not only asking me searching questions about things I didn't know much about, but I couldn't even understand the concepts behind them. Let alone the vocabulary - I remember a couple of us afterwards having to go and look up exactly what "teleological" meant...

So I was floundering about trying desperately to understand what the hell was going on, and slowly slowly things started to fall into place, and I began to understand the tutor's questions and even (sometimes) come up with coherent replies. Reading Joss's comics feels a bit like that. He's operating on a higher plane than the rest of us, and storylines and plot developments that probably seem perfectly clear and straightforward to him are baffling to us ordinary mortals.

In other words, what he needs is a beta reader. :-)

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if the apocalypse referred to is the kinda apocalyptic scenery which is at the moment going on in the streets of L.A. in "After the Fall" (however then we'd need to know if Buffy Season 8 happens at kinda roughly the same time as "After the Fall"

As for all of those who're a little bit disappointed with Season 8 so far: You should give Whedons run on "Astonishing X Men" a try. Although I like Buffy Season 8 I think Joss' X-Men are fabulous, probably because there's lots of "Buffy feeling" in it. :-)

[shapinglight]

But, instead we get another scene with hysterically funny sexual subtext: when Spike meets Spider, she bristles up with eight spider legs and he, in response, aims his knife at her. Talk about the battle of sexes.

OMG! I never even thought of that! I think I was too busy going eww! over the spider legs.

[next_to_normal]

Was it an intentional shock, one more declaration that this is not the show we used to watch on TV - or Joss has just miscalculated the level of disorientation?

I think perhaps Joss has miscalculated the level of interest in Fray. ;) Or he's trying to drum up renewed interest in Fray by making it required reading to understand season 8. (Does that sound cynical?) I've only seen the preview pages, and I was pretty confused by Fray's sister looking like Buffy, too.

Willow "zips up" Warren's mouth and skins him on the last minute of Villains, but the depiction of her tortures appear on Lloyd's wall at least 10 minutes earlier (29-th minute of the episode).

Okay, I haven't watched season 6 in a while, but I have no idea what you're talking about here... there were pictures of what Willow did to Warren before it happened? I remember the D'Hoffryn line from "Selfless," but that's the only reference to pictures...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if the apocalypse referred to is the kinda apocalyptic scenery which is at the moment going on in the streets of L.A. in "After the Fall"

But aren't they in other dimension? Um, another other dimension? (I'm getting confused by the the plethora of alternate dimensions :))))

You should give Whedons run on "Astonishing X Men" a try.

Thanks for a tip. I think I will try. I'm a newbie in the world of comics, BtVS is my first comic ever, but I slowly adapt to the medium.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

We learn that some hundred years ago (Fray POV) one great slayer (probably Buffy) together with her allies faced an enormous apocalypse and won.

One small technical correction which might prove very important: it's never said that the Slayer in question won.

URKONN: What we know is this - there was a battle. A Slayer, possibly with some mystical allies, faced an apocalyptic army of demons. And when it was done, they were gone. All demons, all magicks, banished from this earthly dimension.
FRAY: And the Slayer? Did she...
URKONN: I do not know if she lived. But, the demons being gone, she was the last one to be called.

If we assume that a) Twilight's goal really is to banish all demons and magicks, and that b) Buffy keeps fighting against Twilight, that would imply that Buffy lost that battle. Or will lose that battle, from a Season 8 POV.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

If we're shown on 29-th min. the pictures of the events that will happen onscreen in 10 minutes it means these pics appeared before the actual events happened.

You know, I was 99.9% sure there was absolutely no reference to that drawing around the 29th minute or anywhere in "Villains" - hell, anywhere other than in "Selfless". But I dug the episode out and hmmmm... one of the cave paintings in Africa does depict a man who's naked and bleeding - not skinned, I think, but definitely gutted. It doesn't look much like what Willow does to Warren, and I seriously doubt that that demon is called "Lloyd" - I don't see any watercoolers around either. ;-) But... interesting idea. Thanks for pointing that out.

But like s2c says, I've always assumed that the Spike scenes in "Villains" take place a lot later. So even if that is Lloyd and his drawing of Warren, it wouldn't be foreshadowing.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Loved your reviews!

All sources describe evil!Willow as "madwoman". A mislead (to make the audience think of Dru) or a future important plot point?
I thought the whole hinting at Dru thing was a bit overdone. Also what did make Willow change her wardrobe so drastically.
It looks like evil!Willow at least had an affair with Dru within the last 200 years (which would actually be fun).

I like your Willow wants to prevent Giles death theory a lot. So far I'm pretty much at a loss for her motives. I hope it has some connection to twilight and the bigger picture though.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Or he's trying to drum up renewed interest in Fray by making it required reading to understand season 8. (Does that sound cynical?)

Cynical but very convincing! :)

there were pictures of what Willow did to Warren before it happened?

In the African cave where Spike undergoes his trials:

(http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/BtVScaps3/?action=view&current=Lloyds_wall.jpg)

[the-darkstar.livejournal.com]

Well, that's a DAMN interesting interpretation.
Would be really good stuff!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I think I was too busy going eww! over the spider legs.

Yes, me too. Funnily, the scene reminded me final Mal\Operative standoff in Serenity when Operative brandishes his sword and Mal snaps up a crowbar. :)

[next_to_normal]

Ah... I don't think I ever studied the cave that carefully. But yeah, I'd agree with whoever up there said Spike's timeline didn't necessarily match up with what was happening in Sunnydale. Spike's journey would've taken weeks, if not months, to get to Africa, and the Sunnydale storyline in those last few episodes took place in a span of a day or so. It might have been foreshadowing for the viewers, but I don't think there was any premonition on the part of whoever drew it.

[next_to_normal]

Maybe Fray's account of history isn't totally accurate, similar to how the Watchers' journals left out things and got some things wrong? I mean, maybe the "one great slayer" and the "enormous apocalypse" do refer to Buffy and "Chosen," but the end of magic and demons wasn't until later, but over time they got conflated into one huge battle.

There's also the tenuous connection that the fight with the First resulted in the activation of all Slayers, the activation of all Slayers prompted the rise of Twilight, and if Twilight succeeds, that will be the end of magic... so technically the result of "Chosen" is the end of magic, just with a few extra steps involved.

ETA: And clearly, beer_good_foamy is one step ahead of me, lol.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

You've got me blushing now.

Sorry - I didn't mean to. I just tried to find an excuse for my own thickness. :)

Reading Joss's comics feels a bit like that. He's operating on a higher plane than the rest of us, and storylines and plot developments that probably seem perfectly clear and straightforward to him are baffling to us ordinary mortals.

OTOH, in the first arc, The Long Way Home, Joss' secrets were too easy to figure out. The lipgloss clue was so obvious it was hard to believe that the solution was so simple.

Maybe it's the combination of two factors - crossover stuff and time-travel (which, frankly, never makes much sense) - that makes this arc so hard to figure out.

In other words, what he needs is a beta reader. :-)

Hee!

[shapinglight]

Haven't seen Serenity. I suffer from severe Nathan Fillion Aversion Syndrome.

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

That wasn't Buffy? I thought it was a flash forward or something. Maybe I watch too much Lost.

I much prefer the Angel and Spike comics.

[shapinglight]

Also, I suspect that person on Buffyforums is talking about me, which I kind of resent. Yes, I refer to the Buffy comic as season 1 of an entirely new show rather than season 8, but this is because Joss himself said that in an interview, or rather that so-called season 8 was a 'reboot'. Will find that quote before I post another comic review and quote it every time I write one hereafter.

Also, I can't as yet make sense of the plot of this story arc. Would no doubt try harder if I liked Fray, but didn't like the original series and don't like the character and setting any better now.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

As much fun as Vamp!Willow is, I doubt it; that would be a completely different story. They've dropped too many hints about Willow becoming an increasingly powerful - almost god-like - witch; it would make more sense to take that to its logical conclusion rather than turn her into a vampire. (Plus, Vamp!Willow = soulless = probably wouldn't feel sad on Buffy's account.)

Then again, I'm always way off on Season 8, so... I guess she's a vampire. ;-)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

From the shooting script:

The villager's voice fades in the distance as Spike comes to an open area deep in the cave. It is nearly PITCH BLACK. We can just barely make out Spike in the darkness.

Spike flicks his lighter - and we see, briefly, ancient paintings that line the walls. They all depict scenes of CARNAGE and TORTURE. Horrible sights. Spike examines them.

No mention of one of them being supposed to foreshadow Warren. Of course that idea might have been added after the script was written, but...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Also, I can't as yet make sense of the plot of this story arc.

I'm afraid it makes the two of us. :)

Joss' stories work much better when you can read/watch them in their entirety. If we could read all 4 issues at once, I think they'd make more sense. But it's pretty frustrating to wander in the dark, month after month.

[shapinglight]

I'm beginning to think the people who've decided to wait until the trade paperbacks come out have the right idea.

:ponders:

I wonder if the TBP of the Drew Goddard story will include that daft Dracula/Xander Tales of the Vampires story with the horrible art? It might be worth buying for that alone.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Loved your reviews!

Thanks!

It looks like evil!Willow at least had an affair with Dru within the last 200 years (which would actually be fun).

*chokes over her tea*
Bwahaha! Write it! Write it! :)))))

I like your Willow wants to prevent Giles death theory a lot. So far I'm pretty much at a loss for her motives. I hope it has some connection to twilight and the bigger picture though.

I think/hope she transformed herself to live long enough to meet Buffy "at the other side" and to send her back and possibly warn her about something. And Harth is just a pawn in her game.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

If we assume that a) Twilight's goal really is to banish all demons and magicks

OTOH, hard to believe that a creature who can fly wants to banish all magic. He could play the military types telling them what they wanted to hear.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

That wasn't Buffy? I thought it was a flash forward or something. Maybe I watch too much Lost.

My thoughts exactly. And I also watch Lost a lot! :)