moscow_watcher | Buffy #22 review and spoilery specs

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Buffy #22 review and spoilery specs

Plot: Kennedy is sent to Japan to evaluate Satsu's leadership. Together they catch a monster, who tried to abduct a fluffy vampire!kitten toy. Without second thoughts slayers take their trophy into their bedroom. At night the ~~alien parasite~~ toy gets into Satsu's body through her mouth. In the morning Satsu puts on a kimono and proclaims that she should turn into a normal girl who makes babies. Kennedy realises that the slayer is possessed; she fights with her and literally kicks the vampy kitten out of Satsu's body. Turns out Satsu had already revealed the new location of Buffy's castle to the toy who telepathically sent the coordinates to other vampy kittens. The corporation that produces evil kittens sends a shipload of them to Scotland. ~~Space marines~~ Slayers attack ~~aliens~~ vampy kittens and destroy the ~~Alien Queen~~ The Swell who belches misogynistic crap. To beat the monster, Satsu uses Korean submarine she "took back from vamps". Right before death The Swell tells that he works for Twilight. Back in Scotland Buffy watches Harmony-the-vampire-rights-spokeswoman, complaining on TV about evil slayers who kill fluffy toys. Buffy decides to "keep low profile" and "focus to be more than human, or the less-then is gonna win".

Steven DeKnight, what happened to you? You used to write the most brilliant ("Dead Things", "Seeing Red") and creepy ("Hellbound") episodes on BtVS and AtS. How come that you wrote a story with with "mwahaha, I'm evil!" villains, dubious metaphors, characters irrational behavior and enormous amount of squick?

No, I'm serious. Here's examples of dialogs:

"Mmm babies! We should make some like normal girls instead of running around hitting people!"
***
"We're nothing but a bunch of self-righteous little ovaries! "
***
"Get in her mouth, get in her --!"
***
"Eat their ****ing ovaries!"

Apparently it's supposed to sound funny. I read a suggestion that ludicrous dialogues are parodying anime subtitles. Maybe. Maybe not.
There is a great post by

shadowcat67 where she talks about subjective and one objective analysis of text. One of the issues she discusses: has the writer failed if the plot and intent are not clear to the reader or audience. She says it much, much better than I could say it, so you may read it in her LJ.

Back to #22: the majority of reviewers saw vampy kittens as a reference to popular Japanese toys and The Swell as a homage to manga monsters. My first impression was that it's a parody/retelling/rip-off of Alien movies (Joss wrote a script to one of them 12 years ago). But the funniest interpretation I know goes back to "Kittens jihad" - shipper wars back in 2002, when Willow/Tara shippers, known as Kittens, unleashed a war against ME writers for killing off Tara and proclaimed that her death caused a great damage to gay and lesbian community. So, the issue about two lesbians overcoming a bunch of evil Kittens could also be a wink to the fandom by DeKnight who wrote the episode that featured Tara's death.

I don't want to recycle other reviewers' complaints about Buffy's unexplainable stupidity, although her decision to keep the submarine surpasses even her bank-robbing activities. I'm not sure I understand correctly DeKnight's metaphors and references. For example, I find dubious the idea of demonic possession manifested in the desire to wear national clothes and have children. But I can't understand if it's a clumsy plot device to signal us that something in wrong with Satsu, or a reference to some mangas, or an insight into Japanese culture I don't get.

I have to confess that after reading that issue I wanted to go and have a shower. It squicked me. The scene where vampy kittens break out of human bodies was particularly squicky. The plot about vampy kittens vaguely resemble Lynch's Shadow Puppets, but in Lynch' story little monsters are stuffed and they don't get into human bodies. They're reasonably creepy - evil but not repugnant. In The Swell we see a legion of vampy kittens who penetrate human bodies through mouths, suck them dry and then burst out ot cavity chests. I mean - how disturbing it is?

But I read other fans' responses and nobody seems disgusted. Maybe I'm just unaccustomed to to mangas? Does it often happens in mangas?

In any case, this is an issue I want to forget ASAP.

In other news, during recent Q&As Scott Allie admitted that "what's important for Season Eight is understanding how corruption/compromise has affected Buffy" so now we know for sure that bank-robbing and submarine-stealing was intended to spell: B-u-f-f-y I-s W-r-o-n-g.

I wonder how Joss plans to resolve the situation. To make a spell that takes away all slayer power? To banish slayers from Earth dimension? To put them under government control? Or maybe Joss wants to end the season with Buffy and Scoobies arrested, while the world is succumbing to vampire rule? If vampires become a metaphor for media, this is pretty topical. :)

I'd love to finish my ramblings ans specs with a sentence without a question mark, but I'm afraid I don't have coherent conclusion. So, the last question: could anybody identify the green monster on Kennedy's t-shirt?

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Evil Kittens are just bad news...is it me or did Season 8 issue 22 out due the rest of the bad issue? Cuz I'm not liking this Issue at all, just terrible.

Thank God it's not only me who finds the issue bad. :)

Great review, Moscow - and I'd completely forgotten about the controversy over DeKnight and the death of Tara. As I recall, he went on the Kitten board and managed to insult a bunch of already very upset people.

Maybe this story is his way of saying sorry?

I find dubious the idea of demonic possession manifested in the desire to wear national clothes and have children

Yes, that's very odd.

Also, like you, I'm glad Allie's clarified that we are in fact supposed to find Buffy's behaviour 'off' and worrying. It doesn't say much for my trust in Joss etc, that I ever wondered if we were in fact supposed to think her perfectly justified in everything she did, but I did.

The big question is if Buffy's actions will have *real* consequences or the story will end up in a feel-good epiphany: "Hey, I realised that it's wrong to rob banks and steal submarines" and that will be it.

The green monster is Oscar the Grouch from Sesame Street.

It’s kind of ironic the way so many of the complaints of heavy handedness in DeKnight’s depiction of misogynist homophobic monsters come from the same fandom that has been pitying the poor Slayers for having no men in their lives, castigating Buffy for being more focused on saving the world than going back home to attend to her baby sister and are adamant that misogyny is no part of Twilight’s agenda despite his explicitly gendered belittling of Buffy (just like a girl) and his acolytes’ constant reference to Slayers as if they were some kind of animal. They spawn (Voll), they’re ‘fillies’ (Roden) Buffy’s that bitch (the army woman) and that’s without even mentioning Warren’s opinions on the matter.

The green monster is Oscar the Grouch from Sesame Street.

Thank you! Sometimes my cluelessness in regard of popular culture is embarassing! :)

As to the rest of your comment, no, I don't find it ironic and I don't think that DeKnight was referencing fandom's attitude by The Swell's misogyny - if that's what you imply. AFAIK, DeKnight didn't inderact with fans after the Kittens fiasco - and rightly so.

In which case he probably isn't winking at the fandom by referencing the Kitten wars. I didn't mean that DeKnight was deliberately parodying fandom attitudes. Fans are people and as subject to the influences of institutional sexism as anyone else. These Kitty monsters are just showing us their ids. It's funny AND disturbing and that's no bad thing.

"Fans are people and as subject to the influences of institutional sexism as anyone else."

Gotta say I haven't seen many fans shouting "I'll eat ya ovaries" at each other though. Well so far at least. *g*

Well it would be kind of ineffectual in cyberspace. I do recall a certain amount of "Girls kissing girls? Blech!" doing the rounds when the Satsu/Buffy storyline broke.

Thought-provoking review. ;-)

I read a suggestion that ludicrous dialogues are parodying anime subtitles. Maybe. Maybe not.

Have you seen the Dark Horse webcomic that accompanies this issue, also written by DeKnight?
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=218201811

"You are giantly rotund!" "And ill-smelling!" "Please remove your offensive presence!"

I don't know how obvous it would be to someone who doesn't have English as their first language but trust me: the dialogue is definitely a parody of badly-subtitled anime. The excessive violence, giant monsters, etc are also stereotypical.

The whole issue, to me, is similar; it's gloriously over-the-top, cartoony parody. I think it's quite deliberate. The current arc of the comic is five independent stories by five different writers, and I think they're using the opportunity to play around with different styles that might not fit into the more serious arc episodes.

I can't understand if it's a clumsy plot device to signal us that something in wrong with Satsu, or a reference to some mangas, or an insight into Japanese culture

Well, traditional Japanese culture is even stronger on the need for women to stay home, look decorative and have babies than American culture. Dressing Satsu up in an old-fashioned kimono is another signal that whoever was responsible for the Swell wants to turn back the clock. (That wasn't just 'national clothes', it was 'clothes people wore two centuries ago'. It's like the dress Buffy wore in 'Halloween', and had similar implications.)

To make a spell that takes away all slayer power? To banish slayers from Earth dimension?

I hope not. If the theme of the season is "Empowering these women has led to some of them using their power unwisely" I don't think offering the solution "And therefore it was a mistake to empower these women, and we should make them helpless again" would send a good message...

Have you seen the Dark Horse webcomic that accompanies this issue, also written by DeKnight?
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=218201811

Yes, I saw it but shrugged it off as a joke.

I don't know how obvous it would be to someone who doesn't have English as their first language but trust me: the dialogue is definitely a parody of badly-subtitled anime.

The dialogue sounded very weird to my foreign ears (or, rather, eyes) but, to me, the whole story was extremely baffling.

The whole issue, to me, is similar; it's gloriously over-the-top, cartoony parody.

Maybe fans who have some manga experience enjoy the parody on its stereotypes. I get that manga and anime are very popular today - some of my friends, former BtVS fans, switched to anime and mangas. But I couldn't get into it.

The excessive violence, giant monsters, etc are also stereotypical.

Obviously I read the cultural references wrong and the similarities to Alien movies weren't intended.

If the theme of the season is "Empowering these women has led to some of them using their power unwisely" I don't think offering the solution "And therefore it was a mistake to empower these women, and we should make them helpless again" would send a good message...

But Joss could steer around this message by showing that de-empowering *all* slayers is equally wrong and clueless humanity succumb to Twilight's evil PR tricks. It could be a great set-up for season 9: Buffy-the-outcast-ex-slayer trying to fight vamps without her slayer power.

Right now, I have a very dirty mind but I think I can solve the mystery of what the vampy cats really are. They're sperm or representations of sperm. That's why they're so obsessed with ovaries and when they possess women they make them think about having babies. I think it's just a dirty joke perpetrated on the Salchio Corporation, the Slayers, and Larry King Alive by Kumiko Ishiara with the help of Saga Vasuki *smirk*. Twilight just rolled his eyes and exploited the submarine stealing and piracy to make a blow against Slayers in the P.R. war. I agree not one of Deknight's best efforts.

They're sperm or representations of sperm.

*Chokes with laugh*

I think it's just a dirty joke perpetrated on the Salchio Corporation, the Slayers, and Larry King Alive by Kumiko Ishiara with the help of Saga Vasuki *smirk*.

Yay Kumiko! *starts dreaming about Harmony/Kumiko/Saga Vasuki threesome pr0n*

I don't read the comics but, reading you, I suddenly remember that kittens used to be in seaosn 6 a metaphor foreshadowing the Potentials of season 7 (drunk Buffy released the kittens, the Sharkman said that time is that make kittens grow into cats etc)so it's interesting to see evil kitten now...

Apparently, kittens are able to service any metaphor in Jossverse. Back in season 3 a kitten represented Buffy'n'Faith's connection. In season 5 miss Kitty Fantastico was a symbol of Willow/Tara mystical bond. In s6 they serve as a foreshadowing of Potentials. Right now they're artificial, vampy and evil and may represent toy industry, human's inner vampire or even sperm as

curiouswolf36 suggests upthread... :)

Nah you forgot that Miss Kitty Fantastico was Dawn! By the way the kitty in the dream Buffy and Faith shared in season 3 was also about foreshadowing the coming of Dawn.

Dawn herself, as Buffy surrogate sister/daughter, foreshadowed the Potentials with whom Buffy shared her powers eventually. With Faith she refused to share anything, with Dawn she felt she had to...with the Potentials it was her choice completely.

If we put aside the pussy joke, I think that the kittens have always been connected to the slayerhood, in one way or another, whether it was about Buffy herself (the big kitten she followed in the desert) about Dawn who was part of Buffy, or about the Potentials who were Buffy's babies.

The fact the kittens have turned evil might mean that Buffy is losing something now.

Yes, it may be another sign that something's wrong with Buffy (besides bank-robbing and submarine stealing)...

If we put aside the pussy joke, I think that the kittens have always been connected to the slayerhood, in one way or another, whether it was about Buffy herself (the big kitten she followed in the desert) about Dawn who was part of Buffy, or about the Potentials who were Buffy's babies.
That just makes the fact that Spike gambled with them and occasionally ate them (potentially anyway--no pun intended) quite funny.

That just makes the fact that Spike gambled with them and occasionally ate them (potentially anyway--no pun intended) quite funny.
Oh, God. That an idea. Now I'll never be able to watch the kitten pocker scenes with the same attitude! :))))

You know metaphorically for Spike, it works as well, now that I think of it. He was and had been essentially gambling with slayers in one way or another. In the end (of BtVS anyway), he came up with snake eyes.

Still makes me giggle though :P

And the ultimate message of the show is "don't play with your food". :)))

But I read other fans' responses and nobody seems disgusted. Maybe I'm just unaccustomed to to mangas? Does it often happens in mangas?

I have no idea if it had anything to do with manga, but frankly, I thought it was too silly to squick me. Like you, it mainly made me think of the Alien series, and while that's a pretty creepy concept, it's also become a little too commonplace to be creepy in and of itself.

now we know for sure that bank-robbing and submarine-stealing was intended to spell: B-u-f-f-y I-s W-r-o-n-g.

I never understood the people who were (and in some cases still are) arguing that Buffy's doing everything right; as far as I can tell, it's been pretty obvious since #8 at least that she's doing a bunch of things that always equal raising the Big Red Flag of Wrong in the Jossverse. I don't think it's supposed to be as simple as her simply being "wrong", though; it's supposed to look like a difficult situation where none of the alternatives really is 100% completely simple and good - which makes it all the more unfortunate that they've apparently decided not to show us any of the decisions that led her to this point, or exactly what the current situation is with "everyone" hating the Slayers, etc. Show us why Buffy does what she does as opposed to doing something else, and she might look more justified.

I wonder how Joss plans to resolve the situation.

I'm still pretty convinced there's some sort of epiphany coming. And I'm still pretty convinced that the longer we have to wait and the more they screw up in the meantime, the more eye-rolling it will cause. But we'll see.

Show us why Buffy does what she does as opposed to doing something else, and she might look more justified.

Apparently, Joss thinks he already did it. Buffy robbed the bank to buy a radar. Which didn't prevent the destruction of the castle several issues later.

I'm still pretty convinced there's some sort of epiphany coming. And I'm still pretty convinced that the longer we have to wait and the more they screw up in the meantime, the more eye-rolling it will cause. But we'll see.

If the seasonal arc will end with Buffy's realisation that it's wrong to rob banks, that will be a bit disappointing, to put it mildly. :)

I'm trying to fugure out what kind of consequences Joss could prepare for Buffy. Taking away her slayer powers for a while could be an interesting option. Especially in a world ruled by vampires.

I don't know if it's so much feeling that Buffy is right as... well, like in S7. We were apparently supposed to see many of her leadership decisions as wrong. But the backlash that the writers devised against this (kicking her out of her own house, having Faith's plan blow up [literally]) was so over the top and muddled that the whole thing came off as "Buffy is Buffy, and therefore right, even when she's wrong."

Interestingly, your reasoning echoes in Buffy and Willow's dialogue in issue 11:

Willow: Not killing humans is what separates us from the bad guys.
Buffy: No, not being bad is what separates us from the bad guys.

It's unclear how we should react on Buffy's words. After all, she *did* kill humans - the knights of Byzantium were human, Spike's chip worked on them. But, ultimately, Buffy was right to kill them, because it was self-defence.

I'd like to hope that one clumsy storyline (the s7 one) doesn't necessarily mean every future storyline needs to be equally clumsy. However, I think part of my problem with the story is that I just don't buy that Joss would let Buffy crash and burn completely. He's gone on record so many times saying that he created Buffy for a very specific purpose; she's the Hero. She shall overcome. I'd love a good Buffy-turns-dark story (I don't think this is quite it; IMO, it's too clumsy and too dependent on having Buffy do things just for the sake of seeming dark). But still, it's one of the most interesting things about the comic. However, the problem is that while I like that Joss lets Buffy stumble, he hasn't convinced me that he could let her fall so far she can't get up. Which means that when he starts telegraphing his punches as early as in #2, the first thing I start wondering is "OK, Buffy's going dark, when's the big epiphany coming?" And the longer it takes and the blinder he has to write Buffy to maintain the arc, the more annoyed I get. Whether that's my fault or Whedon's, I leave up to the reader.

But what I was referring to specifically was the amount of fans who seem(ed) to not notice that he's had Buffy checking every box on the Whedonverse Darkness Arc checklist. A story about power corrupting only works if the readers can see that the character with power is being corrupted; otherwise, it's all rather pointless. Whether that's the reader's fault or Whedon's, I leave up to... well, me. ;-)

*isn't sure if that made any sense, but it's late*

I agree - the dialog is extremely squick-worthy, and very different from the show with the use of bleeped-out blue language. And 'girl-licker'?

I'm a tried and true fan of Deadwood and its 'one-f-word-per-minute' creative swearing, but seeing all these villains and Slayers cursing to beat the band is a little jarring.

*sigh*
I wonder if I understood correctly and "ovaries" are euphemism for c-word?

In The Swell we see a legion of vampy kittens who penetrate human bodies through mouths, suck them dry and then burst out ot cavity chests. I mean - how disturbing it is?
Isn't that what happened in the first three episodes of Angel? However, references to manga when everyone does not read it does not make for fun references, I'm sure. Then again, it worked on South Park...maybe it just doesn't translate well (the reference I mean) in comic books?

Isn't that what happened in the first three episodes of Angel?

I don't remember any episode where "posession" took such gross forms. Of course, it's easier to draw a panel than to shoot an "Alien" sequence...

maybe it just doesn't translate well (the reference I mean) in comic books?

Maybe they should have invited a guest artist who knows to draw mangas to work on this issue.

I'm sorry--I meant in one of the first three eps of Angel--some demony/parasite thing would jump into a body, go on a date and have sex, then burst out of the chest cavity to take up another host or something.

I didn't actually see this comic (and I more than likely never will), but what I meant is that the joke itself, and not the drawings (the funny speech patterns and stuff), just don't work well in a comic. In South Park, there was music in the anime fashion, and the gratuitous violence of the ep fit within the context of the story. It worked on every level for me, and I don't even watch anime or read mangas or whatever.

Yes, now when you reminded me I remember. Very squicky.

In South Park, there was music in the anime fashion, and the gratuitous violence of the ep fit within the context of the story. It worked on every level for me, and I don't even watch anime or read mangas or whatever.

Maybe BtVS doesn't work the way South Park works because, unlike South Park, BtVS was supposed to be about Serious Things? Then again, maybe this issue was intended as a big joke. :)

I agree with most of your points on this comic.
I have only a few things to add:
http://tyroshutterbug.wordpress.com

Thank you for the link, it was an interesting read.

Lovely review. I've been stalking LJ, skimming people's thoughts on this issue, and I still struggle to find anything to redeem it. I'm debating with myself whether to keep reading to be honest - s8 is turning out to be yet another example of why creative people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want (the major example being George Lucas and his prequels of course).

The plot about vampy kittens vaguely resemble Lynch's Shadow Puppets, but in Lynch' story little monsters are stuffed and they don't get into human bodies. They're reasonably creepy - evil but not repugnant.
I found the whole kitty thing ridiculous - not the vampy kitten idea, which could be neat, except it just went completely haywire. 'Repugnant' is a good word. (Whereas Lynch's ninja puppets were just adorable and deadly. *pets them*)

Well, I guess we'll see if my masochistic curiosity gets the better of me when the next issue comes out. For now I'm very busy finishing the next chapter of my WIP...

creative people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want (the major example being George Lucas and his prequels of course).

Heh. After the fall of communism in Russia practically all creative people went through collective artistic crisis. The majority of them never recovered. :(

I found the whole kitty thing ridiculous - not the vampy kitten idea, which could be neat, except it just went completely haywire.

Maybe the issue would have been more successful if they invited a manga artist. *shrugs*

For now I'm very busy finishing the next chapter of my WIP...

You're talking about My Immortal? *salivates*

After the fall of communism in Russia practically all creative people went through collective artistic crisis. The majority of them never recovered. :(
That's often the way...

Maybe the issue would have been more successful if they invited a manga artist. *shrugs*
I guess I just expected something... cleverer. And less squicky. Meh.

You're talking about My Immortal? *salivates*
I am. Miiiight be finished by the end of this week. *crosses fingers*

I guess I just expected something... cleverer. And less squicky.

I stopped expecting cleverer long ago. I'm afraid that's the biggest problem, people expecting too much.

But the squick factor... yeah, incredibly high.

Miiiight be finished by the end of this week. *crosses fingers*

*bites nails*

I stopped expecting cleverer long ago. I'm afraid that's the biggest problem, people expecting too much.
But if I lower my expectations any more I have to start digging. *goes to re-watch the trailer for S3 of Torchwood for the millionth time* ETA: With TW in know exactly what to expect! And I love it. :)

*bites nails*
::grins:: (Dear Lord I hope it'll live up to your expectations, I'm very nervous about this chapter.)

But if I lower my expectations any more I have to start digging

*gigglesnort*

With TW in know exactly what to expect! And I love it. :)

I suppose I'm a masochist - Jossverse draws me because it's practically impossible to guess Joss' next move.

Dear Lord I hope it'll live up to your expectations, I'm very nervous about this chapter.

You shouldn't be. Your story is terrific. *loves*

I suppose I'm a masochist - Jossverse draws me because it's practically impossible to guess Joss' next move.
Oh I didn't mean it like that - I was thinking more about style... I mean, TW is generally over the top, over-sexed, angsty, big on plot holes and meta, and able to be utterly gut-wrenching. But it is also pretty impossible to work out where it'll go next! (As for Joss, then I'm *worried* what his next move is going to be.)

Anyway, I must run. And thank you lots for the encouragement! *hugs*

I was thinking more about style...

Yes, current BtVS style is baffling. :))))

*smoochies*

Pst! (In case you missed it...)

*smoochies back*

Thank you! *runs off to read*

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Buffy #22 review and spoilery specs

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Buffy review

Re: Buffy review

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