moscow_watcher (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
moscow_watcher) wrote2008-06-17 05:13 pm
moscow_watcher) wrote2008-06-17 05:13 pm
BtVS # 15, AtF # 8 reviews
BtVS issue 15
Summary:
The majority of panels in issue 15 depict the big battle against Japanese vampires. As it usually happens on BtVS, characters metaphorically fight their fears and frustrations - and win. Dawn faces Mecha!Dawn (complete with a lizard tail!) who is programmed as a whiny teenager - and decapitates her. Willow fights with a witch Kumiko - a metaphor of her dark side resurfacing in a desperate situation - and, thanks to Buffy's intervention, wins. (Looks like Willow and Kumiko had learned their magic from the same source - woman-snake Saga Vasuki). Xander gets the chance to avenge Renee's death thus finishing his transformation from Xander Harris to Xander Fury, as Tallgent says in his wonderful review. Buffy learns to delegate - she orders Satsu to lead Slayers when she jumps down to help Willow. Dracula symbolically hands Xander to Buffy after the battle. Buffy has a farewell sex with Satsu who wants to stay away to stop loving her and stays in Tokyo as a field leader thus getting a promotion. Xander spreads Renee's ashes on the wind.
Spoilery thoughts:
Willow and Saga Vasuki. I think Willow turned to her to resurrect Kennedy. As a result Willow - advertently or inadvertently, traded her knowledge with Saga Vasuki, who, in turn, gave tips to Kumiko. Including the information about the Scythe. Could it be the betrayal in question? By "somebody very close"?
Dawn. As it was already revealed by the cover of issue 18, poor girl will turn into a Centaur. Very unexpected but pretty logical. She has overcome her whiny self, time to deal with inter-species sex. After all, Centaurs were the first hybrid of human and non-human races (I watch too much BSG).
Xander and Buffy. Looks like they both are conveniently single, finally, and Bander ship is ready to raise the sails. (But of course it won't happen immediately because Buffy will to to Frayverse in the next issue).
I wonder if Satsu getting a promotion immediately after sleeping with Buffy should be regarded as a bad thing or it was just a plot convention, like Xander spreading Renee's ashes instead of sending the urn to her relatives. Interestingly, two prominent supporting players - two "love interests" - were written out of the show simultaneously, opening the door to Frayverse characters.
Some musings:
Well, it's official: I'm old. I'm a fan of a previous generation. I expected Godzilla to make an appearance. It never occured to me that Goddard may introduce a mecha. But, at least, the robot has a reptilian tail, so I feel oddly comfortable with Mecha!Dawn.
I'm asking myself again if I will ever learn to enjoy comics properly. My problem is that I got used to texts, to movies. BtVS season 8 were my first comics. When I started reading them I struggled through and wondered if Joss has lost his creative streak. But recently I read the script of Dollhouse pilot - and it was a feast. Gripping story, well-defined characters, intriguing twists - I was totally captivated. And now I think I enjoyed it so much because it was a text. I read it and I could mentally "see" what I read. And the pictures in my brain moved and talked, I could "hear" Eliza's voice with her typical inflections, I could "see" Tahmoh's reactions, I could easily project my own vision on the words on the page.
But I can't make comics panels "move" no matter how hard I try. Maybe it's because I don't have any previous experience in comics - but to me it's like Beethoven's symphonies in a hip-hop arrangement.
On the other hand,
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deird1's essay helped me to realise one important thing. As long as I regard season 8 not as a sequel but as a reboot, everything is OK. I enjoy the stories, the dialogs, the "editing". The characters... well, they are different, but it's normal. We don't complain that Hugh Jackman's Van Helsing doesn't act like Anthony Hopkins' Van Helsing. We find it normal that Gary Oldman's Dracula turned into "our" sweet old Drac who has a soul, is secretly in love with Xander and agrees to help Buffy. Dracula's mythology survived dozens of reboots and is still alive. Hopefully Buffy's will also survive. This new Buffy who robs banks to get money for medieval castles and radar systems isn't the Buffy who worked at Doublemeat Palace to pay the bills.Maybe Buffy the Tragic Hero gives way to Buffy the Action Hero? We'll see.
Angel: AtF #8
I'm afraid I don't have much to say about the issue. The stories about Gwen and "civilians" were too short: when I started to get interested, they ended. The art of "Civilians" is very unusual and expressive. And the selection of movies on Sunset 5 Cinema (an actual movie theater in West Hollywood) made my inner filmgeek squee with pleasure. Here they are:
Valentine with David Boreanaz
Chance and House on the Haunted Hills with James Marsters
My Bodyguard with Adam Baldwin
Good Burger with J. August Richards
The Indian the the Cupboard with Vincent Kartheiser
First Knight with Alexis Denisoff
Catch Me If You Can with Amy Acker
The usherette's name is Alice. I wonder if it's a reference to Alice in Wonderland or a tribute to a real person.
The final panels of Civilians are incredibly poignant. I cried when I read them. Curiously, it's the second time when I have such strong emotional reaction to BtVS/AtS comics, and the first time it was also a reaction on a new character - a decoy slayer in issue 5 of season 8. I don't think it's a coincidence; I think I may grew too attached to the characters to enjoy the story about their tribulations. I'm drowning in worries and this is not a good way to appreciate a work of art. But I can't distance from them no matter how hard I try.
Gunn's story is fascinating and frustrating at the same time. Turns out he has been abducted by a group of vampires who "were watching the entire time", who "have an inside line", "work under Wolfram and Hart's radar" and who say that he's "more important than he knows". That's all we find out. So instead of revelations we get another mystery.
flake_sake notes in her review that vampire's words about Gunn's importance are echoing words that invisible voice has said about Wes the issue before. Looks like somebody up there is pulling the strings. Or, for some obscure reason the persons who had a relationship with Fred are crucial for... for... something. It's frustrating to stay in the dark. Thank heavens we'll have the next issue soon!
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I liked AtS #8, not a favourite, but I liked Gwen's story the most. I really felt for her when she could no longer touch anymore, and still had not experienced a full relationship!
Great review
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Thanks!
I guess you enjoyed Season Eight more than me this time.
I meet many enthusiastic fans on different boards and I can't understand why s8 doesn't work for me as greatly as it works for them. Maybe it's a "fannish fatigue" or a "vegemite effect" that Deidr1 describes. (Have you read her essay (http://deird1.livejournal.com/67823.html#cutid1)? It's brilliant!)
I liked Gwen's story the most
I felt underwhelmed because I wanted to know what happens next, how she starts working with Connor etc. So when it ended so quickly it felt like a letdown.
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yes, yes...they have been hinting at this since the begining and Renee threw me for a curve...but now we are back on track for...not sure I am happy about it though.
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I'm very curious about the possibility of this development. Joss modeled BA after "Romeo and Juliet", Spuffy - after "Gone With The Wind"; time to use "When Harry Met Sally" scenario...
I think that Xander is the only viable option for a long-haul relationship. Then again, Joss likes surprises... :)
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But you are right...it probably is the only way those two would find happiness.
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I've thought for a while that Buffy's best chances for a successful relationship were Spike and Xander.
I think she either needs someone superpowered, or someone who doesn't mind not being superpowered. (One of the many reasons Riley never had a chance.)
Mind you, I can't really see Buffy and Xander falling in love.
It's interesting: I'm happy for her to be in love with Angel, as long as they're not together. And I'm happy for Xander and Buffy to be together... as long as they're not in love!
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I definitely can't see TV!Buffy falling in love with TV!Xander. SMG and NB had great brother-sister chemistry and it would have been unwise to destroy it. But in comics these characters are a bit different. I think the way their relationship is presented, there is a possibility that Buffy will eventually find love-friendship with Xander.
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Surely that should be 'Chance, written, directed and starred in by Amber Benson'? Although it's true that Tara never appeared in 'Angel', so...
I think Willow turned to her to resurrect Kennedy.
Possible, but I get the strong impression that Kennedy's death was pre-planned and deliberate. After all, she says "You know I'd die for you - oh wait, I did. Admittedly it was mystical and kinda mellow, but headline: death." Maybe Kennedy died to save Willow's life or something like that, but the idea I prefer is that it was some soert of magical ritual Kennedy volunteered for. (I don't know if you've read 'Legally Dead' but that gets across the same idea in more words...)
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To be fair, Amy Acker has a "blink-and-you'-miss-it" walk-in role in "Catch Me If You Can". So it's about the fact of participation of a member of AtS cast , I guess...
I get the strong impression that Kennedy's death was pre-planned and deliberate. After all, she says "You know I'd die for you - oh wait, I did. Admittedly it was mystical and kinda mellow, but headline: death." Maybe Kennedy died to save Willow's life or something like that
You may be right. I may be reaching too far, trying to explain why Willow delved into very dark and dangerous stuff - again. I can easily accept that she did it in an extreme situation, but I find it hard to imagine that she did it out of curiosity or to get more power. And Kennedy's death has been mentioned twice already - I don't think it was a throwaway detail.
But, of course, Joss could have something else in mind. :)
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You can't see Willow seeking out greater knowledge and understanding of her power, even at great personal risk? You've obviously got a very different view of her character than I do... (Although it wouldn't be just 'to get more power' so much as 'to be able to use her powers to help people without risking going evil again', I think.)
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I think that it was Coven that could help her with knowledge and understanding of her power without risk. And if she turned to a dark sorceress, she was really desperate.
And it wasn't just a personal risk - looks like she inadvertently shared knowledge that endangered all slayers.
Willow is clever and she has a very painful experience with black magic. The way I see her, she wouldn't turn to Saga Vasuki unless the latter was her last hope.
But, of course, Joss may have something else in his sleeve... :)
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I get the impression she would have gone to the Coven first, learned all they had to know - then been sent on to someone who could teach her more. (The five spirits?) And when they'd also taught her all they knew, they in turn sent her on to someone else again (Saga Vasuki?). She was gone for six months, remember - on a 'mystical walkabout', which definitely sounds like she was moving from one teacher and experience to another. And while it was six months for people on Earth, nothing says the same amount of time passed for Willow...
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Interesting spec. But wouldn't it make Willow waaaay more powerful than she is now? All the knowledge from Coven, which - let's see - in season 6 gave Giles enough power that, when Willow had acquired it, she got the ability to end the world. If a creature seeks powers beyond that range, well... *shrugs*
But, in the end, Coven powers could be just a plot convention, and Joss could already forget about it, so maybe you're right.
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She has overcome her whiny self
I really hope that's not the purpose of the Giant!Dawn arc, as
Bander ship is ready to raise the sails.
Still not seeing neither the foundation nor the purpose of that. Then again, I didn't see Butsu either, so what do I know? :-)
I can't make comics panels "move" no matter how hard I try. Maybe it's because I don't have any previous experience in comics - but to me it's like Beethoven's symphonies in a hip-hop arrangement.
Nicely put. Especially since I've heard one or two hip-hop songs that actually managed to sample classical music and make it sound good - it's not even close to the real thing, of course, but it's a different take on it. Cover versions can be good sometimes. (Though tying this back to the Tokyo arc, I always hated the way Puff Daddy butchered Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir" on the soundtrack to Godzilla.)
The final panels of Civilians are incredibly poignant.
The more I think about it, that was probably the strongest part of "First Night" - not necessarily all of "Civilians," but that one page; it captured the spirit of Angel a lot better than most of the stories the comics have told so far. If we'd gotten more stuff like that, it might have seemed less frustrating; as it is, I can't help thinking that the last three issues told us very little we didn't already know and I just want them to get on with it. Funny thing; the Buffy comics seem to refuse to tell us how they got to where they are, and the Angel ones are so hooked up on details they can barely get the story started...
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Thanks!
Still not seeing neither the foundation nor the purpose of that.
About Bander: to me one of the most indicative elements is the overall looks. I still remember watching season 6 promos and seeing Spike with curling hair and without nail polish and going "yay! They're finally going there!" Because he was styled as a romantic hero. The same here with Xander. Artists could easily make him look as a comical sidekick, but they draw him as a handsome, muscular and sexy man.
Besides, I remember reading a fan report from a convention: Jane Espenson said that during school seasons Joss planned to end Buffy with Xander. And - IMHO - eighth season's vibe is very similar to early seasons.
that one page; it captured the spirit of Angel a lot better than most of the stories the comics have told so far.
Oh, yes! Empty movie theater, empty cans of "Campbell's soup" - how poignant and ironic is that? Movie theater as a last resort, a place where people used to consume other people's dreams and nighmares... Love this panel to bits.
Angel ones are so hooked up on details they can barely get the story started...
If only they could publish an issue every week... :)
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Well, it's that kind of comic. Even Andrew is looking pretty good, but I don't see them pairing him up with anyone... even though Buffy did make that Xandrew joke, hmmm?
If only they could publish an issue every week...
Considering how much of a fanboy Lynch seems to be, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just crank out more backstory, fill-in-the-blank fic and OCs, and we wouldn't have gotten one step further. ;-)
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Hee! You've got a point!
Considering how much of a fanboy Lynch seems to be, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just crank out more backstory, fill-in-the-blank fic and OCs, and we wouldn't have gotten one step further. ;-)
Oh, noooo! No more backstories! I meant regular issues every weeks! I may be incredibly spoiled by fanfiction but I got used to having something interesting to read every day...
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The story of Scott Summers and Jean Grey of the X-Men is a case in point (I'm talking the comics here, not the movies). By now, I think the couple must have been through every twist and turn the writers can think of -in the Summers-Grey case, Jean turning into an all-powerful pan-galactic entity, the Phoenix, dying the save the universe, a doppelganger of her turning up which Scott married, but was later found out to be a clone. Meanwhile, it turned out the Phoenix had never been Jean at all and the real Jean turned up, at which point I think Scott abandoned his wife but that was okay because she turned out to be evil anyway - and so on and so on.
I think at some point Jean turned out to be the Phoenix after all (possibly not, I forget) and I've completely lost track now, but last time I looked she was dead again and Scott was paired up with someone else (not for the first time). Also, there's a possibility that Jean was in love with Wolverine, like in the movies.
Which is all a long-winded way of saying that I don't expect Bander in the near future (and would rather have more Xacula anyway).
I liked AtF 8 but I agree the stories were very brief. Also, I think it's high time to get back to the main event.
Should also have said, I enjoyed your reviews very much. They're always very insightful, especially to do with long-running themes, which I tend to miss a lot.
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It's a Jossian rule as well so it's doubly certain.
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Given that a simple kiss turned out to be a death sentence for poor Renee...
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I also think that if Joss decides to reunite Buffy and Xander romantically, it will happen in the last issue. Joss tortured Spuffy shippers for two and a half seasons and Bander shippers will most likely get the same treatment.
As I was reading about Scott Summers and Jean Grey I couldn't help but wonder if there are shipper wars in X-Men universe... :)
I liked AtF 8 but I agree the stories were very brief. Also, I think it's high time to get back to the main event.
I salivated when I saw thar there already were first comments on issue 10 on IDW forum. :)
I enjoyed your reviews very much.
*blushes* Thanks!
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Oh undoubtedly.
As for 'shipper wars in the X-Menverse - I expect there are, especially now because of the movies, but I don't follow the books any more, so I have no idea.
Should imagine there are diehard Scott/Jean 'shippers who loathe Scott's current love and Jean's flirtation with Wolverine the way B/A 'shippers hate Spike and Cordy, though.
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I'm so glad this happens after the whole thing has been filed in a "totally not canon" folder in my head. If it doesn't feel like the show, it's not canon for the show. It doesn't how much Joss may say so or how logical it would be that it's canon. It simply doesn't feel like canon to me and given the story, I'm more than okay with that.
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Oh lord, ditto! I always say that if I didn't already know that Joss wrote/devised this I'd never have guessed as it often comes across a poorly written crackfic I'm afraid.
Makes me appreciate the medium of TV even more though!
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I agree it's very subjective. Especially after Joss' confession that he will easily "forget" about comics storylines if he'll get a chance to make a feature film.
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First of all, great review. Great reviews for the past six months or so, actually.
Okay, so the question I'm sort of flittering (if that's even a word) towards is thus: I was a massive fan of the Buffyverse, back when it was on our television screens (though probably not quite to the extent of you and a lot of others who post here). I happen to think both series ended just at the right times. Well, when I say that, I would like to have seen more consdering I loved both Buffy and Angel, but at the same time, I think that Buffy in particular was definitely running out of steam, and I'm glad they ended it before it became a parody of itself.
But that's just me. So with that in mind, would you recommend the comics to a non-comic book fan? In terms of 'what happened next in the Buffyverse?', I'm more morbidly curious that desperate to find out. I don't want a series of terrible portrayals of characters I've loved in the past to ruin said characters for me, but at the same time, that niggling feeling of 'so how's Xander doing with one eye anyways?' is still there. I'm sort of up to speed with the comics thanks to your reviews, and others online, but there's no way you can really get the full gist of the stories from reviews.
So what do you think? Sorry if that was kinda long, and if you're a football fan, I wish Russia luck tomorrow. And if you aren't...then I still do, because you play a good game. Thanks.
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Welcome!
First of all, great review. Great reviews for the past six months or so, actually.
Thanks!
So with that in mind, would you recommend the comics to a non-comic book fan? In terms of 'what happened next in the Buffyverse?'
Hmmm... Tricky question.
I wanted to reply that, judging by reactions I saw online, comics usually work for casual fans but don't work for diehard fans. But, at the same time, I know a number of diehard fans of the show who also love comics.
Then I wanted to reply that if you're a Xander fan you most probably get some interesting action and if you're a Spike fan then you won't. But I noticed that some diehard Xander fans absolutely hate everything that happens in comics, while I, for the most part, like season 8 (and I'm a Spike fan).
So, it depends. The change of media was very hard to me. When I was reading first issues I missed actors terribly. I think that now I'm starting to get used to comic format, but I still can't see drawed characters as "real" Buffy, Willow, Xander, etc. I think I may be qualified as a casual fan of season 8 and diehard fan of the show. Maybe it's the best attitude.
I wish Russia luck tomorrow.
Thanks!!! We'll need all our luck in this game! :)
And - check your inbox, you have a message
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Congrats. :-(
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Next time you'll be more lucky :)
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At least Joss encourages us to write fanfics! :)
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She has overcome her whiny self
She certainly has. Dawn's grown up in more than one way - she wants to fly the nest, but can't. So she turns instead to action. Interestingly enough, the Greek meaning of "centaur" is "Bull Slayer," or "piercing bull." Perhaps this means she's the member of the Scooby gang now slated with the job of cutting through everyone else's bull?
And yes, the Bander ship has been sighted off the port bow.
Looks like somebody up there is pulling the strings.
Very much so! Lots of cryptic talk about the importance of different people in an overall plan that has yet to go into action. Kind of reminds me of the earlier seasons of the new BSG. Even though they'd nearly exterminated mankind, that wasn't the end of it. And they have a plan...for the people who are left.
Of course, if the vamps that took Gunn are telling the truth, that means there are two big "plans" in existence - although the Wolfram and Hart one seems like much more of a threat at the moment. Again, I wonder about Angel's humanity, and whether or not this is part of the "plan," or will play a key role in upsetting it.
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Thanks!
Interestingly enough, the Greek meaning of "centaur" is "Bull Slayer," or "piercing bull."
I didn't know about it! Very interesting. I am really curious what they have in store for Dawn. After a fight against a mecha doppelganger with a reptilian tail... it's a hard act to follow. :)
Of course, if the vamps that took Gunn are telling the truth, that means there are two big "plans" in existence - although the Wolfram and Hart one seems like much more of a threat at the moment
I think that from a writer's POV, it's more handy to have two sets of chess figures on the board. I've already read issue 9 and it's kinda wraps the story Lynch was developing so far, and starts another one...
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Всегда завидовала творческим людям... Когда нибудь и я научусь...
Буду очень признательна, если поможете мне победить в конкурсе красоты (http://mis-runet.com/?a=125550).
Победа в этом конкурсе ОЧЕНЬ много для меня значит! Заранее благодарна всем, кто откликнется на мою просьбу.
С Уважением, Валентина.