Exploration of demon's humanity

[moscow_watcher]

Dark Horse forums became a place of interesting discussion lately and I couldn't keep my big mouth shut. While current debates mostly focus on "OOC or not OOC", this one is a bit different. Was humanizing demons a mistake from Joss' part?

On Dark Horse Forums Inthenameofmbi wrote
Joss made a terrible mistake there. That was the beginning of the end for good casting/character choices for the series. You can't just start "exploring humanity" with a character that was already established as an evil demon just because he had one OOC episode. That was a mistake that cost the show everything in the end. Bad Joss! Be more respectful of your creations next time. [/pretends Joss is listening]

I replied:

I also happen to think that Joss has made an enormous strategical mistake.

But I tend to think he made it a bit earlier - when he conceived and executed the Angelus arc. By introducing Angelus Joss had frozen the show in a simplified "us good them bad" moral attitude. That's why I think that Angelus arc, being brilliant per ce, paradoxically had an overall crippling effect on the show. Joss and Co should have depicted Angelus more controversially, showed him struggling with his emotions, his confusion and desperation at the face of love.

I think that by season 2 it became obvious that BtVS is an epic show with bigger-than-life characters and bigger-than-life situations. In this epic dimension demons are incredibly compelling and fascinating; their scale of personality is bigger; their journeys are more rewarding.

In this situation it would be logical to develop and explore demon characters more closely, experiment with them more creatively, make them interact with humans to make human characters grow. Yet with the introduction of Angelus this option became practically impossible.

During season 3 Joss has been hopelessly stuck with the only "limited" monster - werewolf Oz. (Interesting side note: all the male demons in the regular cast have a creative streak. Angel is an artist, Spike is a poet, Oz is a musician. Self-identificating much?)

Only in s4 of BVS/s1 of AtS Joss has finally broke free from Angelus curse and introduced a new concept: demons, like humans, are different. Doyle on AtS, Spike and Anya on BtVS - they became the elements of the new world Joss needed in order to tell his new stories. More complex. More subtle. And, IMHO, more fascinating and compelling.

Should Joss adhere to black-and-white position he proclaimed in the first episode of the show? I'm not sure. All I'm sure - that in the latter case we woudln't be here, still discussing the show that has ended 5 years ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I realise that my post was a bit provocative and I'm curious what my f-list thinks...

Comments

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

From everything I've read on the topic, they originally planned to have Spike and Dru be the big bad for five eps in S2, have Spike killed in the church fire/collapse, and have Dru and Angelus end as the season's big bad. They saw potential in the Spike character, however, so instead of killing him off, put him in a wheelchair instead, but were still intending to kill off Angelus at the end. Then David Greenwalt suggested that he thought Boreanaz could carry his own show - as a sort of sister show, but from the vampire's perspective, that would be older and grittier and aimed at a mid-twenties demographic, rather than teen-aged.

Once they decided that is the direction they wanted to go, they had to find some way to keep DB under contract for the year (BtVS 3rd season) it would take to develop the new show. So they were stuck bringing him back from hell, and attempting to develop an ongoing relationship with Buffy that was meant to have ended in Becoming. With all that going on, I think they did a really good job of making enough sense so that it didn't seem cut and pasted together, even though large parts of it were. I think the BtVS/Angel writers were masters of fly-by-the-seats-of-your-pants writing, and given what all was happening in the real world of producing a TV show, they managed to keep the continuity fairly high for the whole run. That takes skill!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Then David Greenwalt suggested that he thought Boreanaz could carry his own show - as a sort of sister show, but from the vampire's perspective, that would be older and grittier and aimed at a mid-twenties demographic, rather than teen-aged.

Oh, I remember Joss' commentary on IOHEFY about watching David and realising that he has to do a separate show with him! It's so obvious Joss was fascinated with his new idea - he wrote Becoming 1 as basically a pilot for "Angel".

they managed to keep the continuity fairly high for the whole run. That takes skill!

Agree. And, funnily, as soon as Angel has departed, demons became visibly less scary. In season 4 Buffy's roommate, demon Kathy wanted to blend in; Xander started dating Anya; Spike became Buffy' ally etc.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

And, funnily, as soon as Angel has departed, demons became visibly less scary. In season 4 Buffy's roommate, demon Kathy wanted to blend in; Xander started dating Anya; Spike became Buffy' ally etc.

And then there was Clem . . . ;-) Possibly tied with the poor slurpee-sipping demon in AtS for least scary character on either show. Now Caleb? Was terrifying. Demons? Not so much. (Except for The Gentlemen who still give me the creeps and I won't watch Hush alone to this day. Maybe it has to do with stealing your voice before they kill you, but they scare the crap outta me!)