BtVS season 8 issue 4: summary, analysis and conspiracy theories

[moscow_watcher]

BtVS season 8 issue 4: summary, analysis and conspiracy theories about that pesky kiss of true love, Ethan Rayne's fate and DH's anti-Spike stance.

In a nutshell: the first arc looks like magnificent storyboards for Michael Bay's next movie. And - Bander, sir!



Summary:

Issue 4 starts with the flashback of the scene in Villains in which Willow kills Warren. Inexplicably Willow's hair is red in this scene, although it was black on TV. Obviously media change causes some weird color shifts, because Willow's eyes are absolutely blue right now.

Meanwhile Buffy talks with Dawn about Willow outside their Scottish castle; the shadows they cast suggest two suns in the sky. Is it AU? Dawn says that Willow is like a mom for her. (In the previous issue we were told that Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies hadn't had news from Willow for a long time. In seasons 5-7 Willow\Dawn interaction was minimal except the moments when Willow tried to kill her - first unintentionally, then intentionally. Just saying.)

Meanwhile Warren tortures Willow (we only see her eyes and hands in (quoting Joss in Chosen) "a rictus of revelatory pain". Warren channels his inner Darth Vader and tempts Willow with darkness. She refuses: her spirit is strong because she is helped by five mystical beings connected with her in some supernatural way.

Back at Slayer Central, girls, who are reopening the portal, say that they can send one or two persons maximum through it. Buffy chooses a slayerette named Satsu - beautiful Japanese girl with cool katana - as her back-up. Before entering the portal Buffy asks Satsu is she has a lipgloss, and notices that Satsu's lipgloss has cinnamon taste - like the one on her lips after the kiss of true love. (Heh. In penultimate panel on issue #2 we saw Satsu on the castle wall fighting zombies when the kiss of true love occured.)

Portal reopens, evil military types on the other side send a death ray through it. But turns out good guys had magically figured out that bad guys will send a ray. They have put a mirror in front of the portal so that reflected ray is sent back to destroy bay guys. Buffy with her scythe and Satsu with her katana enter the building of The New Initiative throught the portal. Two girls armed with one scythe and one katana defeat about a hundred men heavily armed with guns.

Xander locates their position: they're two miles south of Sunnydale.

Buffy finds Amy who does her magic thingie against the slayers. Somehow Willow's spirit transmits to Buffy her magic abilities and Buffy defeats Amy too. A spirit of Amy's mother makes a cameo appearance and says that she saw Amy's nightmares. Warren and Amy escape with generic "This isn't over, Slayer". Buffy rushes to Willow who is OK and smiling. "Problems?"

Buffy asks Willow to heal wounded and dying soldiers. She sees a door with a number "30" on it. "OK, Ethan", she says. "You got yourself get out of jail free card." But Buffy's late. General Voll kills Ethan Rayne and tries to kill Buffy. She slams him at the wall and discover *that* sign on his chest.

"Twilight is coming", general says. "For you, for all your monstrous spawn ... You've upset the balance, girl. Do you really think we were going to sit by and let you create a master race? ... You're not human. You've been to war with demons, with the First, but, believe me, you've picked the wrong side. 'cause God help us, if you win then you'll decide that the world still isn't the way you want it, and the demon in you will say just one thing: "SLAY". We're not waiting for that to happen. We will wipe you out. Not just monsters anymore. It's you against the world. You're at war with the human race."

"Oh", Buffy says. "...kay".

Analysis:

The conclusion of the first arc is exhilarating and sad at the same time. The ambition looks enormous. So far, nobody wrote a convincing "human race vs super-human race" story.

I suppose on a RL level the situation is unsolvable. What happens when the principle of equal opportunities stops working naturally, from within? The race of superhumans can't peacefully co-exist with the race of humans. Their very existence creates a huge inferiority complex in ordinary people. They can either live in isolation from each other or fight for survival and the humans can't win by definition. The situation is very Joss Whedon-worthy, because he, as nobody else, can write natural human reactions in supernatural situations.

The problems he tackles in The Long Way Home are epic and, so far, they had never been explored properly. The greatest sci-fi writers tried to create a model of co-habitation of humans and superhumans, but nobody was able to find a convincing formula. I suppose Joss had been planning to explore this issue in Firefly, with the character of River.

Could Joss pull off such compelling story in comics without compromises? The tragism of "human race vs super-human race" story has a very Jossian scope, that's for sure.

But...

The choices Joss made so far give me the impression that he won't dare to delve into the heart of the matter and will boil the season down to more traditional and superficial "Bad Initiative vs good slayers" story. Because he consistently eliminates any serious stuff (Ethan Rayne's death is just another proof that this story doesn't need adult characters) and basically serves teenage audience with teenage love agnst, funny quips and cool fights.

The very idea of fighting against evil humans without modern weapons sounds very artificial. Opposing a mirror to high-tech weaponry works OK as a trick but what if bad guys used a bomb instead a ray? Obviously we're not supposed to care about such trifles. Anyway, Willow will heal everybody with a wave of her hand.

There is nothing wrong with it. It's just a different genre. It's all very McGyver-ish, and it works great if we accept the fact that the story has the McGyver level of credibility - i.e. is flippant, light-minded fun where we suspend our disbelief and don't mind implausibilities and give-aways.

Like, Warren is torturing Willow, but she's OK because some magick-y superbeings help her, and, as soon as Buffy arrives, she heals herself instantly. And she can heal everybody else. But she can't restore Xander's eye. Obviously because he looks super-cool with his eye-patch.

The same with Amy: she's a super-witch, she can do almost anything but for some inexplicable reason she has spent a couple of years in Sunnydale crater unable to get out.

The same with supernatural props; portals were hardingers of apocalypses in TV show, but in comics they became just a handy means of transportation.

I see no room for adult characters and adult themes in this kind of story. It's very season one-ish so far. So I think that "human race vs super-human race" story will boil down to "good slayers vs evil Initiative" type of story. Soon we'll find out that The New Initiative is only claiming tо represent the human race and they're just a bunch of evil misogynists whom Scoobies will defeat with quips and jokes.

Commercially, it's a great project. The core audience need good cheesy fun; they couldn't accept dark seasons and now Joss fixes his mistakes and caters to his audience because he needs a successful project after a number of flops.

I wonder if Joss had ever pondered upon the idea to write a novel. Because I think that his current ideas are more suitable for a novel than for a comic. Is writing novels so un-prestigious in America? Or it's just the matter of money?


Conspiracy theories:

Theory #1. The Kiss of True Love, or Bander!

Buffy has been kissed by somebody who had Satsu's lipgloss on his\her lips.

It can't be Satsu herself since she was on the castle wall fighting zombies and shouting "kill the head isn't working!" in her walky-talky when the kiss of true love occurred.

It can't be Willow because she has just arrived.

It can't be other slayerettes because creating such a complex mislead, with the participation of one extra, for another extra is stupid waste of time and paper.

The answer is evident. It was Xander.

I think Joss is repeating himself. (I remember reading somewhere that people lose their ability to create anything original after 40. Just saying.)

I suppose Joss recycles his kiss trick from Our Mrs. Reynolds. In Firefly 1.06 Mal Reynolds, inaware about Inara's love for him, thinks that she has kissed his fake "wife" - a con woman whose kiss puts people to sleep. Since both Mal and Inara fell asleep, Mal assumed that Inara has also kissed "mrs.Reynolds'. But in fact Inara kissed unconscious Mal and got her poison from *his* lips.

The situation is easy to apply here: Satsu tried to seduce Xander at the same time as Amy was performing her spell on Buffy, so she has left some cinnamon lipgloss on his lips.

Xander-as-the-kisser explains why Willow, who, AFAIK, doesn't have telepathic abilities, knows there is a person who's in love with Buffy in the room. She has just arrived and she doesn't know anybody but Xander. And she knows that he loves Buffy since season 1.

It's as simple as that.

Theory #2: Ethan can't die, or clutching at straws.

Has anybody paid attention to weird shadows in Ethan's cell? The light from a rectangular door creates a triangular pattern on one wall, then - oval pattern on another wall. Is it hack-work or it means that the whole tableau is an illusion created by Ethan who is very much alive?

I asked many people including professional artists, could the forms of these shadows mean something. All of them told me that it may be the matter of composition, balancing the light and the dark on the panel. Still, I hope that Ethan isn't completely dead. It just doesn't make sense.

Theory #3: Dark Horse vs Spike, or old wounds

People who read letters column, may have noticed a message of a fan who calls himself Shawler. (S)he hates Spike with a vengeance and colorfully describes how he loathes him. "Spike raped Buffy of most of her humanity and all of her humility... Please don't have Angel or disgusting Spike show up in this series!"

Interestingly, it's the second anti-Spike letter DH publishes. One may assume that the letter is carefully chosen to represent DH official policy: forget about dark themes, season 8 is about cool guys and cute girls. (And a lot of cheese.)

But there is something more. Back in 1998 DH had a row with James Marsters who played Spike. According to James Marsters Question and Answer Database by Bookworm54 JM was very vocal about his displeasure.

(4-04 Starburst) I'm angry about the comic book. I wrote a story that was very clear - it was a twisted romance. They hired a writer and treated it as a Gothic gross-out tale, which wasn't what I wrote. It was a good story, people responded to it, I appreciated that. But if they had done it the way I wrote it, it would have been ten times better. Dark Horse was dishonest with me with how they brought me into the project and what they told me it was going to be. I feel now, unless I can have total control over every single stage of it, I don't have any trust at all. I thought, in all my naivety, that I would have more control if I stopped being an actor and started being a writer. Of course, I found out that is not true.

I can't remember any other occasion of James dissing anybody. He's the nicest guy, he always complimentary on everybody. If he's so harsh on DH in an official interview (!), it means their row was truly epic. Could the editors have a personal vendetta against Spike due to the kerkuffle with the actor who played him?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To sum it up, the first 4 issues of BtVS s8 indicate that it's a solid commercial project. It's sad to think about the missed opportunities - but I'm trying to look forward to cheesy fun. The first arc looks like magnificent storyboards for Michael Bay's next movie and I don't mind good entertainment.

And, last but not least, I recommend to read great reviews by stormwreath, aycheb and elisi,

http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/16910.html?#cutid1
http://aycheb.livejournal.com/52334.html#cutid1
http://elisi.livejournal.com/258408.html#cutid1

owenthurman's musing on Willow's and Amy's eye color as well as discussion of the issue 4 on Whedonesque

Comments

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I thought Xander won't even get mentioned, (seeing as he barely was there in S7 -> don't count those times where he stood in the corner with one stupid line) and Giles will have a veeeery small role.

I've been sure that Xander will be featured prominently in season 8 since I've seen the first sketches. Because after Spike has gone, Xander became the only ship-worthy male on the show.

And, interestingly, I feel that in season 7 Xander's presence is much bigger than in seasons 4-5. I vaguely remember a very old discussion on Cross and Stake spoiler board: somebody counted the number of lines for each character and proved that Xander had the second biggest role in s7 after Buffy herself. Willow had got the 3rd place, Spike - the 4th.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Interesting review, and your analysis of the long-term conflict was particularly thought-provoking. There were a few other things I didn't agree with, though...

Inexplicably Willow's hair is red in this scene, although it was black on TV. Obviously media change causes some weird color shifts, because Willow's eyes are absolutely blue right now.

It did look odd, because the whole image is a magenta and black duotone but Willow's hair looks red - which almost suggested to me that it's S8 Willow standing looking at a mental image of S6-Warren. The eyes thing is especially odd, especially given that in the final fight scene, they make a big thing of Buffy's eyes turning green (Willow's normal colour) then black - rather than the blue she's been drawn as so far. I speculate that the artist asked what colour Willow's eyes were rather than actually looking at photos of Aly, was told "green", and assumed that meant blue-green rather than her actual green-brown...

Meanwhile Buffy talks with Dawn about Willow outside their Scottish castle; the shadows they cast suggest two suns in the sky.

Or that there's a big spotlight 30m above them, rather than the sun 93 million miles away. :)

In seasons 5-7 Willow\Dawn interaction was minimal except the moments when Willow tried to kill her - first unintentionally, then intentionally.

Apart from the time after 'The Gift' when Willow and her partner moved in with Dawn to act as her surrogate parents, you mean? :)

Buffy chooses a slayerette named Satsu - beautiful Chinese girl with cool katana - as her back-up. Before entering the portal Buffy asks Satsu is she has a lipgloss, and notices that Satsu's lipgloss has cinnamon taste - like the one on her lips after the kiss of true love. (Heh. In penultimate panel on issue #2 we saw Satsu on the castle wall fighting zombies when the kiss of true love occured.)

Satsu's Japanese, not Chinese (her name is Japanese, the katana's Japanese, and her whole Helly Kitty dress sense is pretty Japanese as well). And you've got the timing confused. Satsu's in the big zombie fight at the end of #2. In #3, Willow Jane-Austenises the zombies, Dawn stomps Amy and Willow magically binds her; then we cut to another scene some time later with Willow, Xander and a group of Slayers gathered around Buffy's bed - that's when the kiss happens. (Incidentally, Willow's telepathic enough to hear someone think her name real loud, so I'm not surprised she can also pick up someone in the room lusting after Buffy...). So it's perfectly possible for it to be Satsu who kisses Buffy - which makes possible all sorts of stories about hero-worship and inappropriate crushes, accusations of favouritism by Leah and Rowena, etc. It's an aspect of leadership that Buffy probably never imagined she's have to cope with: what to do when someone younger than you and whom you're in a position of authority over fancies you...

But turns out good guys had magically figured out that bad guys will send a ray.

Or alternatively, the 'magic mirror' would have reflected any spell that was cast at the portal. Making it a ray gun just made for a more obvious visual effect.

Xander locates their position: they're two miles south of Sunnydale.

Which unfortunately, if Sunnydale is based on real-life Santa Barbara, would put them under the Pacific Ocean. :) But I suppose Buffyverse geography is flexible...

A spirit of Amy's mother makes a cameo appearance and says that she saw Amy's nightmares.

That was Buffy saying that, using Willow's magic to take on Catherine Madison's appearance.

(to be continued)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

(continued)

I suppose on a RL level the situation is unsolvable. What happens when the principle of equal opportunities stops working naturally, from within? The race of superhumans can't peacefully co-exist with the race of humans. Their very existence creates a huge inferiority complex in ordinary people. They can either live in isolation from each other or fight for survival and the humans can't win by definition. The situation is very Joss Whedon-worthy, because he, as nobody else, can write natural human reactions in supernatural situations.

This is the big, fascinating question the story raises. I'm inclined more and more to the idea that S8 will end wih the "Fray Solution" - the only way to stop Slayers being corrupted by their power is for them to renounce it; but the only moral and responsible circumstances in which they could lay down their power would be if they first found a way to make it unnecessary - by ending the demonic threat forever (or at least for several centuries). Only trouble is, that would make a season 9 pretty much impossible...

(Ethan Rayne's death is just another proof that this story doesn't need adult characters) and basically serves teenage audience with teenage love agnst, funny quips and cool fights.

I thought Ethan's death was pretty shocking... given Buffy's comments before she found him dead, it was reminiscent of the scene with Chloe hanging herself in 'Get It Done'. Especially given the General's comments about how he was the only one who could have helped her... It ups the stakes; I certainly didn't get that it was "killing off the adult characters". I do think he's dead; I don't think that means he won't reappear in some form later on.

as soon as Buffy arrives, she heals herself instantly. And she can heal everybody else. But she can't restore Xander's eye.

Quibble: she can heal herself, but specifically says that this drained so much of her power that she won't be able to heal the soldiers - just "stop the worst of it." I've also speculated before that just like mundane first aid, healing-magic is much less effective if used more than an hour after the injury was received. Which is why healing a fresh wound is one thing, but regrowing an eye that was poked out over a year earlier is much harder.

The same with supernatural props; portals were hardingers of apocalypses in TV show, but in comics they became just a handy means of transportation.

Or in Angel, a handy means of murdering your former physics professor...

I see no room for adult characters and adult themes in this kind of story. It's very season one-ish so far.

Not seeing that, I'm afraid. Buffy, Willow and Xander are all coming across as adult to me. Not seeing things in black and white, making hard decisions while being aware of the complexities (but not losing their sense of humour), generally being mature. I mean, can you really imagine teenage Buffy saying to Angel "I'm sorry. I'm tired. Just tell me now, so we don't have to do a whole awkward-dance... are you coming to bed?" Xander is incredulous at the whole "kiss of true love" thing (or "true love crap" as he calls it) - it's just so overblown and fairy-tale and, well, teenage. He already knows how incongruous it is. Which links to Willow's words to Amy: "I sw the big picture. But you, Amy, you're as self-involved as your mom was." Just like Warren, Amy is shown here as someone who never really grew up. They're a perfect pair. :)

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Funny thing about S7, I barely remember what Xander did in it. It doesn't matter if he has more lines than Spike and Willow, what matters they had more going on for them than Xander did, they had a memorable story about themselves and their redemption, Spike had three episodes dedicated to him, Willow had two. First Date is a pathetic excuse for a Xander episode since Buffy's story with Wood and Andrew's story with First!Jonathan had more screen time and were far more interesting and helped moving the plot.

So other than standing in the corner and saying stupid jokes, I didn't have any hope for a good role to Xander in S8. Now I'm honestly happy, shocked and impressed. I didn't know Joss actually cared for the character anymore.

I have high hopes for a good Giles arc, but when will we be able to see it? I don't know. Xander's arc will start next year, Giles' will probably be the year after.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

after 'The Gift' when Willow and her partner moved in with Dawn to act as her surrogate parents, you mean?

I've got the impression that it was Tara, not Willow who became a susbtitute mother for Dawn. The problem is that we never saw onscreen Willow taking care of Dawn. And we were told that Willow was away for a long time after Chosen. So "like a mother" sounds a bit sudden and - how to put it? - not earned? not deserved?

Satsu's Japanese, not Chinese

Oops, sorry. I corrected my mistake. I wonder if her name means something.

And you've got the timing confused. Satsu's in the big zombie fight at the end of #2. In #3, Willow Jane-Austenises the zombies, Dawn stomps Amy and Willow magically binds her; then we cut to another scene some time later with Willow, Xander and a group of Slayers gathered around Buffy's bed - that's when the kiss happens.

It's unclear how much time passes. But we know that Satsu wasn't there in the room initially. And we were explicitly shown that she was elsewhere. And we don't see any particular reaction from Satsu when Buffy says "cinnamon". And the idea of Willow magically feeling Satsu's love for Buffy (not lust, because lust is not true love) is too complicated, I think.

So it's perfectly possible for it to be Satsu who kisses Buffy - which makes possible all sorts of stories about hero-worship and inappropriate crushes, accusations of favouritism by Leah and Rowena, etc. It's an aspect of leadership that Buffy probably never imagined she's have to cope with: what to do when someone younger than you and whom you're in a position of authority over fancies you...

The problem's it's not about crushes or hero-worship or fancies. It's about True Love. The vibe is very fairy-talesque and I just can't see this storyline turning into a sociological study of leadership issues.

Or alternatively, the 'magic mirror' would have reflected any spell that was cast at the portal. Making it a ray gun just made for a more obvious visual effect.

Oh, it works great until you start asking questions. Why The Initiavive has shot the ray? Was their goal to lure Buffy into the portal or to scare her away? Imagine a mousetrap that starts to beep every time a mouse approaches.

That was Buffy saying that, using Willow's magic to take on Catherine Madison's appearance.

Oh, really? I've got the impression that Amy's mom intruded her mind the way Ethan intruded Buffy's dreamspace. I suppose "dreamspace" is the newest way to give characters directions when writers run out of ideas.

Sorry if I sound sarcastic. I like discussing the show and I think many of your points are valid and great food for thought.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined more and more to the idea that S8 will end wih the "Fray Solution" - the only way to stop Slayers being corrupted by their power is for them to renounce it; but the only moral and responsible circumstances in which they could lay down their power would be if they first found a way to make it unnecessary - by ending the demonic threat forever (or at least for several centuries). Only trouble is, that would make a season 9 pretty much impossible...

Giles' conversation with the demon may be a clue to another resolution of problems with demons: peaceful co-existence with them. Given the current political situation, the metaphor would be very apt.

You know, a fan in Russian segment of my f-list has put forward an unusual idea: to make Buffy a real Big Bad. According to her, it's the only way to make things fresh. But we are very anti-authority in Russia; I doubt that such arc could be accepted by American audience.

I think that Joss won't dare to delve into truly dark stuff. I'd be happy to find out that I am wrong.

Quibble: ... healing-magic is much less effective if used more than an hour after the injury was received. Which is why healing a fresh wound is one thing, but regrowing an eye that was poked out over a year earlier is much harder.

I should stop saying "fanwank" and start saying "quibble". :)

I mean, can you really imagine teenage Buffy saying to Angel "I'm sorry. I'm tired. Just tell me now, so we don't have to do a whole awkward-dance... are you coming to bed?"

No - but current Buffy doesn't say it neither. It was her subconsciousness speaking.

Xander is incredulous at the whole "kiss of true love" thing (or "true love crap" as he calls it) - it's just so overblown and fairy-tale and, well, teenage. He already knows how incongruous it is.

I suppose season 1 Xander's reaction would have been similar. The kiss of true love belongs to the tales for little children. And teenagers, especially boys, tend to mock pre-teenager stuff. I know it first-hand - my son is 19.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I've got the impression that it was Tara, not Willow who became a susbtitute mother for Dawn.
I don't argue that Tara was the more maternal and care-giving of the two of them - but it was still "Willow-and-Tara" who were acting as Dawn's parents, not just Tara alone.

Besides, one thing a lot of this argument is missing is that in the comic, Buffy and Xander themselves thought that Dawn's line was overstated and a little odd. "Oh, I bet you loved hearing that" says Xander, to an pissed-off-looking Buffy. Clearly she hadn't thought of Willow as being in any sort of mother relationship to Dawn...

But we know that Satsu wasn't there in the room initially. And we were explicitly shown that she was elsewhere
We were shown that she was elsewhere at the start of the zombie fight, before Willow even showed up. For that matter, Xander was also elsewhere during the fight - he was in the control room, talking to Satsu overthe radio. It's pretty clear to me that quite a long time elapsed between Dawn stomping on Amy, and the scene in the badroom. Willow presumably had time to take Amy down to the dungeons, Xander had time to come down from the control room, and Satsu had plenty of time to come down off the battlements as well.

Besides, Leah and Rowena are in the bedroom, and presumably they were also in the big zomebie battle. It's interesting that Satsu isn't shown when they are, actually (unless the girl second from the right in the third pnel on that page is her).

Was their goal to lure Buffy into the portal or to scare her away?
Their goal was to kill whoever was trying to come through the portal, was my understanding of it. They were clearly nervous, and didn't want to take the chance of Buffy getting through and dodging their death ray so they fired as soon as it opened, assuming (wrongly) she'd be standing right in front of it.

I've got the impression that Amy's mom intruded her mind the way Ethan intruded Buffy's dreamspace.
Buffy's line is "I saw your dreamspace, Amy. I saw your nightmare". We already saw Buffy walking through Amy's dreamspace in the previous issue, so this is something that was already set up for us. (In fact, there's a panel in that issue where Ethan's talking to Buffy off-camera, but she's noticed something interesting off to one side and is staring at it. I'm guessing this is where she realised Amy has nightmares about her mother, and that a reminder of her would be her Achilles' heel. Amy's so distracted, in fact, that she barely manages to dodge Satsu's grenade.

Sorry if I sound sarcastic.
I hope I'm not coming across as aggressive either - I'm enjoying the discussion.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'll check it out! It does feel sometimes like you still want to play but everybody's gone home. :)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

It's pretty clear to me that quite a long time elapsed

You may be right. It seems to me everything happens very quickly - but you may be right...

Their goal was to kill whoever was trying to come through the portal

In that case shouldn't they send a bomb? They're doing a favor to Scoobies, fighting them with weapons that can be deflected with McGyver-ish gadgetry.

But I don't mind suspending my disbelief, as long as the genre is appropriate.

I hope I'm not coming across as aggressive either

No - not at all! I love discussing actual plot points (although sometimes I can't keep myself from ranting and whining).

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

There are 40 year olds as immature as your average 16 year old.

Word! And my ex, Mr. S. is a perfect example!

[shapinglight]

The X-Men stories look very unrealistic for me. I'm convinved that if mutabnts existed in reality the government would either had put them under the strictest control or destroyed completely.

Well, both those scenarios have been played out over the years in the X-Men comics. The Genosha storyline in Uncanny X-men envisaged an island paradise that only existed because the mutant members of the population had been lobotomised and enslaved. There've been other stories of all-out race war between mutants and humans, including the release of a mutant-specific killer virus - and whole alternate universes where mutants were the rulers and the human population was being slowly exterminated.

The trouble with X-Men of course is that it's an ongoing series (since the 1960s) and so they have to keep trying to find new ways to approach the question.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

The trouble with X-Men of course is that it's an ongoing series (since the 1960s) and so they have to keep trying to find new ways to approach the question.

The problem here is that Joss has to work within his own formula. So far, he has always been creating seasonal Big Bads and I doubt that he'll break the tradition. But he can't turn into BB neither Buffy nor humanity. (Although I think Buffy as real BB would be the ultimate cool.) It's just not a viable option. His audience won't accept it.

So I think he'll dodge the problem he created, simplify the situation and make The New Initiative the BB.

[cursedfire.livejournal.com]

But Willow is in the room when the battle ends (except P&P)... Satsu might have gotten in. One of my friends said that it was Willow who kissed because there was emphasis on their bond.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

You may be right, but I still can't imagine Joss involving Buffy in a gay romance. It would change the format and theideology of the show too radically.

[cursedfire.livejournal.com]

Maybe not Buffy involving herself but I don't know, a Slayer in love with Buffy... There is a castle full of young women. Some of them might be gay.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I agree it is possible. But I think that "true love" makes the whole arc very serious. So far, such kind of stories had has always been developed as a "plot A" of the season. So I doubt that Joss could use Satsu's supposed true love as a mild distraction. And he can't go all the way because it could change the show too radically.

But, who knows... :)

[cursedfire.livejournal.com]

Maybe he wants to change the show too radically. Maybe it is Bander, maybe it is nothing.


Too bad that I'll be entering my busiest year in my life next fall. I'll miss the oppurtunity to speculate for like ten issues. Turkish education system is hard. Not very fandom friendly...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Thank God I finished my education in the previous millenium! :)))
Still, I hope you'll find time to read the comics and participate in the discussions.

[elisi]

The kiss of true love seems more mature than Puppet!Angel :)
'Smile Time' is one of the darkest, most disturbing and deeply layered episodes of TV ever! It is *also* very, very funny. In a word: genius.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, that sounds very likely. In fact, it sounds about the only viable option.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love it. Just don't think it's mature, and that doesn't mean that things should be mature to be good.

[elisi]

You don't think 'Smile Time' is mature? But it is about child abuse! (On one level at least)

that doesn't mean that things should be mature to be good.
Oh that we can agree on! Heck my husband loves Buffy the Movie for that very reason. :)

[cursedfire.livejournal.com]

I'll probably find time to read but discussion is a little far but if this community memorizes entries, I might read them later.

[lorelei-frolick.livejournal.com]

I'm coming really late to the party here, but I have to say I really enjoyed your analysis. I completely agree with you about the portal and Willow's magic. In issue #1 Joss has the magic-scientist-type guy tell Voll that there are no rules with magic, but I'm very sorry that he decided to go that way. Since anything is possible it destroys the tension of the story.

I want Ethan to stay dead. After Warren being not-dead, and Willow being not-mutilated and all the soldiers being healed and everything being all nice and good, I took Ethan's death as proof that people can still die in the Buffyverse. I don't want that taken back.

About novels, they're a totally different medium. Personally, I love writing scripts, hate writing prose. Joss is a visual story-teller. His talent won't necessarily translate well into novels.

And I disagree anyways that comics are unsuitable for dealing with serious issues and themes. Comics have dealt with serious, complicated themes. Graphic novels are really coming into their own now as a serious literary genre too, so I think that opens up the possibilities of being serious in mainstream comics as well. Also, comic books are a subculture genre, and I think it's possible to push the envelope a lot more in terms of disturbing content in comics than, say, on TV.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Joss is a visual story-teller. His talent won't necessarily translate well into novels.

I read his scripts and found Joss' language beautiful and his style - crisp, expressive and evocative. I think he could write great prose - subtle, exquisite and thought-provoking. At least, I see the potential.

And I disagree anyways that comics are unsuitable for dealing with serious issues and themes. Comics have dealt with serious, complicated themes. Graphic novels are really coming into their own now as a serious literary genre too, so I think that opens up the possibilities of being serious in mainstream comics as well.

You're right - but I think this isn't the case of season 8. I think it's great entertainment, but so far I fail to see anything profound. The kiss of true love belongs to fairy tales for little children. The characters are drawed and described as teenagers. They are retconned as the ultimate heroes, very yound, beautiful, sexy and flawless.

It's OK, there is nothing wrong with it - but I've got the impression that Joss is aiming at younger audience. Anyway, I'm looking forward to some fun and a lot of cheese.